How expensive is too expensive on the new HH 2.0 Launch Box?

[LameBeard]

The beakies are surely there to appeal to the nostalgia, to people my age who remember Rogue Trader, maybe even get them back into the hobby if they walk past the store? To appeal to existing Heresy players it would have made more sense to take a current expensive resin troops unit and port into plastic: assault marines, despoilers, breachers… then existing players could start the Blood Angel/World Eater/Imperial Fist/<insert legion> army they’d always dreamed of?

[Noserenda]

 

 

The thing is that it's likely we'll get something along those lines down the road. It's just a matter whether a large box like that is the best way to launch 2.0 so new players can begin entering the system and keep established folks happy with new additions to their forces or a foundation for a new army. That's part of the argument that's raging right now in the Necromunda community around the purported price of the new Ash Wastes starter.

 

 

Driving new players away is exactly my worry, Titanicus suffered because of the GM edition and the pricy Ash Wastes box has pretty much killed all interest in that in my group (though not helped by us working on Gorkamorka stuff for the anniversary)  not sure about the last hugely expensive necromunda box as it came out when we were all a bit sick of the system after a very mixed campaign. I guess FW is getting enough numbers to keep making them, but it feels like a gamble, or appealing to folks who would buy essentially anything you put out at the cost of a broader market, which might work out if the later starters rumour does turn out to be real.

 

 

 

I wonder if Ashe Wastes will be like dominion, sales wise.

 

I dont think so, Dominion sold gangbusters (I think around £100 3rd party is about ideal for this kind of box these days) they just wildly over produced it, many, many more copies than Ash wastes. I do think we will see copies sitting on shelves though if thats what you meant? 

 

I do find myself in the rare position of sympathising with GWs dilemma on this kind of box. Heresy has been around for a long time and existing players have built up quite large armies. To generate enough sales from existing players there’s got to be some draw to the launch box because, even though the new beaky kit is great, I’m sure a lot of existing players would find adding 30-40 more tacticals to their force would be hard to justify. This is why I feel they opted to put the Spartan in it. It attracts existing players because it’s a cool unit, it’s new in plastic, it’s a big tank and couple with the Dread, the termies and the HQs it also easily amounts to a solid core of a brand new legion for existing players.

New Edition, new army. Im only speaking anecdotally but its kinda rare for players to have just one army they love forever, and they are mostly Guard and Ork players :D The Spartan can certainly sell on its own merits but i think it badly affects the starter as a whole, especially by how much it drives price over £200.

[MARK0SIAN]

 

I do find myself in the rare position of sympathising with GWs dilemma on this kind of box. Heresy has been around for a long time and existing players have built up quite large armies. To generate enough sales from existing players there’s got to be some draw to the launch box because, even though the new beaky kit is great, I’m sure a lot of existing players would find adding 30-40 more tacticals to their force would be hard to justify. This is why I feel they opted to put the Spartan in it. It attracts existing players because it’s a cool unit, it’s new in plastic, it’s a big tank and couple with the Dread, the termies and the HQs it also easily amounts to a solid core of a brand new legion for existing players.

The launch seems aimed at drawing in new players who avoided resin and its high costs and difficulty in working. Not sure such a huge entry cost is going to be appealing to many players, especially new players. Something like Indomitus would have been nice.

I disagree slightly. I think this particular box is aimed at existing players and existing 40K players. I don’t think it’s aimed at completely new players. I think it is definitely trying to draw in some new blood but mainly from experienced players in this regard. They’ll be able to assess the value/saving on offer here and may conclude that this is a good way to take the plunge. Plus if they haven’t wanted to work with resin then what better way to tempt them than with a previously resin only centrepiece tank?

 

If this box was genuinely intended to draw in totally new players it would be much more in the same vein as Calth and Prospero and wouldn’t be at this kind of price point.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Both dominion and indomitus' contents retailed seperately for almost 800 cad and were sold at 240 cad. The heresy box looks to have a bit over 800 worth of contents, but are rumoured by naftka to retail for 480 cad?

 

That...doesn't make sense. It might retail for a bit more than indomitus, but not twice the price.

[TheFirstKnight]

I mean, if it’s that expensive PayPal pay in 3 months is a thing

[Marshal Mittens]

 

 

I do find myself in the rare position of sympathising with GWs dilemma on this kind of box. Heresy has been around for a long time and existing players have built up quite large armies. To generate enough sales from existing players there’s got to be some draw to the launch box because, even though the new beaky kit is great, I’m sure a lot of existing players would find adding 30-40 more tacticals to their force would be hard to justify. This is why I feel they opted to put the Spartan in it. It attracts existing players because it’s a cool unit, it’s new in plastic, it’s a big tank and couple with the Dread, the termies and the HQs it also easily amounts to a solid core of a brand new legion for existing players.

The launch seems aimed at drawing in new players who avoided resin and its high costs and difficulty in working. Not sure such a huge entry cost is going to be appealing to many players, especially new players. Something like Indomitus would have been nice.

I disagree slightly. I think this particular box is aimed at existing players and existing 40K players. I don’t think it’s aimed at completely new players. I think it is definitely trying to draw in some new blood but mainly from experienced players in this regard. They’ll be able to assess the value/saving on offer here and may conclude that this is a good way to take the plunge. Plus if they haven’t wanted to work with resin then what better way to tempt them than with a previously resin only centrepiece tank?

 

If this box was genuinely intended to draw in totally new players it would be much more in the same vein as Calth and Prospero and wouldn’t be at this kind of price point.

Yes, when I said new I meant to 30k, I imagine most of these new players will be playing 40k or AoS already.

[Cris R]

Another thing to consider with the cost of entry into HH 2.0 is how the new plastics will impact the secondary market prices for plastic 30k models as a whole. I would venture to guess the secondary market prices for plastic MKIIIs, MKIVs, and/or Cataphractiis may take a dip either from 1) the MKVI models monopolizing all the demand for Power Armored marines and/or 2) people selling off extra Cataphractiis from the box set on eBay or Facebook selling groups because they already have a few models. I may be totally wrong with these scenarios but a new player who's patient and fine getting into the game with these three models as an entry point may find it a lot cheaper to do so than they would have in the past.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Cris R

[spessmarine]

big box, big price

to be fair, splitting seems like a reasonable course of action, little tricky to decide which way of course

[Gorgoff]

Current rumor is £240 or $400+ for the launch box.

 

Rumors could be full of :cuss, of course.

 

If their right, that's a LOT more than I was personally expecting, with $300 USD being up upwards guess.

 

How much would the box have to cost before you were not interested in getting one, if you were interested before?

 

What you just said is already way too much for me.

It is a :cussty box to split between two players as well.

I guess we will have to buy the rules for loyalists and heretics as well which will cost around 40-ish € and a Box for 250? Get out :D

 

"Not much more is needed to play most standard sized games after all"

Heavy weapons?

Transports?

Edited April 28, 2022 by Gorgoff

[Slave to Darkness]

 

I want it all for £100

I want it all for free...either is not likely to happen though...

 

Depends how good security is in your local store. 

[sarabando]

240 rumoured price is the absolute max I'd pay for this. I don't think what is half the price of an Xbox for some toys with no paint or glue is going to attract new players to the hobby off the street. A quarter of a grand during a cost of living crisis is pretty dumb they could have halved the size of the box and kept the same cost ratio with out issue imo. But if I was gw staff with that juicy discount this would be a sick deal

[Lord_Ikka]

Personally, it doesn't appeal to me- I'm focused on a Primaris army and a Necron army w/the Imperium subscription, and grabbing various other units for Aeldari/Inquisition armies (and possibly starting a Wargames Atlantic-centered IG force). I've got 6k worth of HH DA, so I don't really need any more models there. I have no interest in a HH army because no one around me plays it (40k is alive and well in NoCo/Denver area), and I don't need any Firstborn for a new SM army. 

 

As a player in general, my opinion is mixed. It is very expensive, but as a launch box for a new HH edition I sort of understand it. Entry-level boxes for new editions tend towards the expensive end. Given the models in there, 240 pounds seems alright, using comparative pricing- 4x Mk6 squads (32.5 each for mk4), 2x characters (24 each in general), 1 Contemptor (38-ish depending on Dreadnought pricing), 1 Spartan (65+, given a land raider is 65), puts the value around 280 pounds. Savings of roughly 40 pounds, or 15% seems something that GW would consider a good discount for players (not saying it is, just that GW would). 

 

I would expect that there is at least a main rulebook and some supplementary stuff included to justify the high price, but this is GW...

[bushman101]

I wonder what else they will put in the box to tempt people?

Rulebook and index?

Those weird commemorative coins?

Cloisonne marine pins?

Limited edition shiny bits?

Wine vouchers?:rolleyes

Edited April 28, 2022 by bushman101

[Noserenda]

Oh id fully expect the usual big release tat :D Alongside if not in the box.

[Scammel]

It seems a reasonable price and a decent selection models for people who just want to start a (large!) army wholesale. What I can't quite get my head around is why GW think this is a reasonable entry point for a game system. In a vacuum it's not absurd, but I hope there's another, smaller box somewhere that occupies a more sensible point in the product range.

[Slips]

From what we've seen from the images as well as educated guesses boxed set is likely to be:

• 2 Praetors
• 40 mk 6 marines
• 10 Cataphractii
• Contemptor
• Spartan
• Orange Template Markers (Flamer, 3", 5" maybe even 7")
• 6-12ish dice?
• Basic transfer sheet for all legions with SoH and IF probably getting a bit more because theyre on the box art
• Pamphlet or something for Missions based on the Lore event the box will be centered around 
• Pamphlet for the datasheets of the minis in the box with the IF and SoH rules probably being printed therein

For the last point, I'm beginning to doubt if the Rulebooks will be in this box set because they'd have to put in, potentially, 3 books to cover the Core Rules, IF (loyalists book) and SoH (traitors book). Unless, that is, if the Core book has everything from Core Rules to generic legion units to the rules and stuff for all 18 legions which is likely to make it a rather thicccccc (thats right, 6 cs) book which is why I'm not so certain anymore.

 

Or its just the Core Rule book with a pamphlet for IF and SoH rules and anyone else is SoL

 

I'd love to be wrong about my speculation for the rulebooks however but, who knows.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Slips

[Cris R]

From what we've seen from the images as well as educated guesses boxed set is likely to be:

• 2 Praetors
• 40 mk 6 marines
• 10 Cataphractii
• Contemptor
• Spartan
• Orange Template Markers (Flamer, 3", 5" maybe even 7")
• 6-12ish dice?
• Basic transfer sheet for all legions with SoH and IF probably getting a bit more because theyre on the box art
• Pamphlet or something for Missions based on the Lore event the box will be centered around 
• Pamphlet for the datasheets of the minis in the box with the IF and SoH rules probably being printed therein

For the last point, I'm beginning to doubt if the Rulebooks will be in this box set because they'd have to put in, potentially, 3 books to cover the Core Rules, IF (loyalists book) and SoH (traitors book). Unless, that is, if the Core book has everything from Core Rules to generic legion units to the rules and stuff for all 18 legions which is likely to make it a rather thicccccc (thats right, 6 cs) book which is why I'm not so certain anymore.

 

Or its just the Core Rule book with a pamphlet for IF and SoH rules and anyone else is SoL

 

I'd love to be wrong about my speculation for the rulebooks however but, who knows.

 

I love the large rulebooks but it would be fantastic if they could bring back the mini rulebook format from 7th edition in this set. It probably wouldn't help justify the box's price but having something portable like that would be perfect for cons.

[LameBeard]

I wonder if Octarius could be a precedent here - it’s two full-size soft-back books (first one core rules, second one army list entries for models, Legion-specific rules for these two legions and the scenarios - everything you need to play for this set) but then smaller sets might have something less or even a different book. Then full army list and other legion rules, in separate books like the ‘Compendium’ which was available at Kill Team launch.

 

I really hope you’re right about the decals - I expect a more limited BaC/BoP style 2 legion set. There’s a lot of shoulders to cover!

Edited April 28, 2022 by LameBeard

[Arkhanist]

Persistant leaks/rumours are that the big launch box will contain a large softcover 'age of darkness' core rulebook and a campaign booklet - that will probably have the rules for the specific units in the box. There'll also be an 'heresy into' fluff pamphlet and some advertising bumpf for forgeworld.

 

No mention that it will contain any of the 3 indexes (loyalist legions, traitor legions, the rest) that are coming at launch, and I'd be surprised if it did. 8th ed 40k and killteam 2.0 both released the indexes separate to the launch box, so it seems likely.

 

No mention of decals either, so it's anyone's guess what those will be; personally I'd only be expecting SoH/IF, but they could do like indomitus and include a few more - we'll see!

 

A smaller softcover rulebook is rumoured to come later in one or more of the split bundle boxes.

[Rejects of Anvilus]

As a long time heresy player with multiple armies and many potential planned 30k projects this box should be right up my street, but at £240 and with with four squads of repeating monopose marines there is pretty much no chance I’m getting it. I’m going to the open day and looking forward (mostly/hesitantly) to the new edition, and I will definitely pick up a Spartan, Contemptor, and one squad of MKVI at some point, but I don’t want to spend this much on one go. The cost is the main problem, I’ve just picked up a whole new Star Wars Legion army in a deal for under £100, so this looks even more out of touch with reality!

[Marshal Mittens]

As a long time heresy player with multiple armies and many potential planned 30k projects this box should be right up my street, but at £240 and with with four squads of repeating monopose marines there is pretty much no chance I’m getting it. I’m going to the open day and looking forward (mostly/hesitantly) to the new edition, and I will definitely pick up a Spartan, Contemptor, and one squad of MKVI at some point, but I don’t want to spend this much on one go. The cost is the main problem, I’ve just picked up a whole new Star Wars Legion army in a deal for under £100, so this looks even more out of touch with reality!

Yeah, they are worlds more expensive than other companies...and increasingly out of many players budgets.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

If this were earlier in my heresy cycle, I would be all over it. As of now, with multiple legions under my belt and a fair hoard of unpainted stuff I am still working through, I will wait and see what else is available at launch. I love it all and it will probably be a great deal after all is said and done, but I just don’t need 50 more unpainted models on sprue staring at me.

[Irate Khornate]

This is one of the few times I'm probably going to pick up multiples of a box without splitting.

 

However this is only due to me selling off the vast majority of my CSM infantry models. I was wanting to hit a reset button on my collection and luckily this offers me a way to come out ahead and replace everything sold and then some. (I have no words of how tired I was of painting chaos trim). But that's a rare case of coming out ahead and outside of this particular circumstance I'd wash my hands of it.

[Balthamal]

The big thing really is that the price is being discussed as a stand alone figure without the context of "value" like it has no bearing on buying one or not. Based on some of the maths earlier in the thread you're looking at infantry alone will be costing the amount for the box (LFG discounts notwithstanding and such) and that's before accounting for a SPARTAN. The brand new contemptor kit (proper kit not monopose ala BaC) and the likelihood that a rulebook will be included too are a pretty great bonus in that vein. 

 

I mean, yeah, I get that value is subjective, but from a pure points based perspective, business end of 2,000pts (by current calculations) for the £200 bracket isn't anything to sniff at when it comes to 30k, at all. Yeah there'll be a lot of conversations between people wanting to split about what constitutes "fairness" with it all but in all honesty that's been the case for every box GW have put out that has enough to make a split practical. 

 

Me personally, I don't think the MKVI have as much overall value as the MK III/IVs if it's true that they're lacking a lot of the options to make the squads multipurpose. The Cataphractii are clearly valuable in more or less every scenario and the contemptor having the multiple options speaks very clearly for itself. 

 

Probably the biggest factor to have a bearing on it all will be if the rumour currently doing the rounds regarding GW wrapping up FW and folding it's ops within the central company are true or not because that's a clear indication that there's going to be a shift to complete plastic production for even the vast majority of kits, character range and primarchs possibly excepted. When viewed in that light, are people going to be as happy having a generic contemptor when some of the legion ones are such a step up in terms of quality on them? Are Cataphractii terminators as appealing anymore if units like Firedrakes/Deathwing/Tyrants are going to be in plastic? 

 

So many ifs and buts and not the whole picture out there as of yet. We'll know a hell of a lot more after Fest and the Open Day next week where you'd imagine a good wedge of pipeline will be discussed

[armarnis]

i think price questions are very subjective. i have tons of stuff unbuild on sprue lying around, that doesnt stop me to think "ohh i could need this or that too!". despite knowing a few months payments are yet unused and collecting dust.

 

this box is raising the question how often can i bear to see the same few models? it seems there are only 5 different legs and torsos and even with different heads and other arms they stick out pretty soon. im waiting madly for the new edition but my first desire to get the box dwindled each time i look at the beakies. hopefully the spartan will be in one of the smaller starters