Future Changes to Storm shields

[Dark Shepherd]

With Armour of Contempt stormshields are very situational/niche/a luxury for most Astartes now, especially Captains and Terminators.

 

Probably not in a marine 2.0 codex but I expect theyll change for 10th edition. Theyre an iconic piece of wargear and lots of people have them modelled on characters/units

 

So possible changes?

Points drop

They become relic stormshields (4+++ v mortal wounds) for characters with invuls and maybe Terminators

Some other change like reduced damage (ughhh)/FNP/no reroll to hit and or wound and or damage

Edited May 14, 2022 by Dark Shepherd

[Marshal Mittens]

Storm shields are still very good against massed AP 0 fire and in cover. +2 against AP0 and AP -1 in the right kind of cover is nice. 4++ is also 33% better than 5++ on termies, and again, still 2+ in cover against AP -1 and -2 for termies, vice only against AP -1 for non SS.

 

AoC makes them a lot less important than they were, but they are still good, in my opinion, even if not as overwhelmingly good as they once were.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Marshall Mittens

[Dark Shepherd]

Not sure if I had whole post up :)

 

Massed AP0 is often S3 so a bit meh IMO but also with cover its still 2+ save, and cover is very easy to get for Infantry (why they hate cavalry I dont know)

 

Theres exceptiona like ignores cover rules/armies

 

Stormshiields invuls only kick in on termies v AP -3 or AP -4 cover. Not worthless but not as good hence possible points drop.

[phandaal]

Honestly on the fence here. For anything on a 2+, half of the benefit for Storm Shields is now redundant.

 

But having it be redundant also means you no longer feel obligated to cram as many as possible into the army.

 

Would be nice to see them decoupled from Thunder Hammers on Assault Terminators, but that would require changes to every kit.

[Djangomatic82]

I've always thought it would be interesting to implement a sort of shield wall mechanic for units fielding massed shields.

If there was a way to implement the terrain feature wording for Obscuring (and maybe Defensible for units behind the shield wall unit), that could be an existing mechanic that can be added to units. 

Having a line of SS/TH Terminators or Bladeguard act as a player deployable barricade, posssible tying it to an Action the unit has to do, would be very cool, but i can see the need to make sure it doesnt open up some niche sidecase exploits.

Admittedly, it doesnt do anything for the units personal survivability, but design space doesnt just have to look at the unit itself.

[Dark Shepherd]

Honestly on the fence here. For anything on a 2+, half of the benefit for Storm Shields is now redundant.

 

But having it be redundant also means you no longer feel obligated to cram as many as possible into the army.

 

Would be nice to see them decoupled from Thunder Hammers on Assault Terminators, but that would require changes to every kit.

Laughs in Wolfguard

 

If they also got a 4+++ v mortal wounds like the Indomitus Primaris Captains shield that would be a lot more useful and fit in with the revered chapter relic vibe of TDA

[Viridovix]

AP -3 and -4 usually go against our vehicles and Dreadnoughts / Paragon Warsuits...with Armour of Contempt, I can see these shots on Bladeguard Veterans too...

I'll still run them, even on Terminators. Given how unlucky I am with dices, 4 is better than 5! 

[Dark Shepherd]

Bladeguard or their wargear are still undercosted IMO but theyre locked in a loadout for now

 

Half of my terminators are literally stuck with stormshields. Plus getting a loadout of combiweapons is expensive!

[Viridovix]

Bladeguard or their wargear are still undercosted IMO but theyre locked in a loadout for now

 

Half of my terminators are literally stuck with stormshields. Plus getting a loadout of combiweapons is expensive!

 

Combis on Heavy Support squad or vehicles...they will be the target while the Termies go frontline maybe?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

When you look at the codex as a whole no BGV aren’t undercosted.

[Dark Shepherd]

 

 

Bladeguard or their wargear are still undercosted IMO but theyre locked in a loadout for now

 

Half of my terminators are literally stuck with stormshields. Plus getting a loadout of combiweapons is expensive!

Combis on Heavy Support squad or vehicles...they will be the target while the Termies go frontline maybe?

I meant expensive money wise : )

 

Thought only Chaos vehicles can take combi weapons?

[Viridovix]

 

 

Bladeguard or their wargear are still undercosted IMO but theyre locked in a loadout for now

 

Half of my terminators are literally stuck with stormshields. Plus getting a loadout of combiweapons is expensive!

Combis on Heavy Support squad or vehicles...they will be the target while the Termies go frontline maybe?

I meant expensive money wise : )

 

Thought only Chaos vehicles can take combi weapons?

 

 

You are right, my fault.

 

[phandaal]

 

Honestly on the fence here. For anything on a 2+, half of the benefit for Storm Shields is now redundant.

 

But having it be redundant also means you no longer feel obligated to cram as many as possible into the army.

 

Would be nice to see them decoupled from Thunder Hammers on Assault Terminators, but that would require changes to every kit.

Laughs in Wolfguard

 

If they also got a 4+++ v mortal wounds like the Indomitus Primaris Captains shield that would be a lot more useful and fit in with the revered chapter relic vibe of TDA

 

 

Always the Wolves causing trouble for innocent, guiltless Dark Angels.

[TheNewman]

I think anyone who re-arms a unit that already had Stormshields is going to regret it sooner or later.

 

In other news, water is still wet, death is still inevitable, and a politician is in the middle of lying about something as we speak.

[Karhedron]

Just a random thought. Storm Shields could give the -1 Damage rule. That would be good but probably not overpowered.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’m sick of -1 damage being handed out like candy. It’s part of the problem.

[Medjugorje]

I think -1 damage is very important for the game. If we wouldnt have it then it would be like in 8th edition when each army just tried to maximize mass S5 - S7 Dmg2 weapons with lots of shots. With -1 damage you have a counter. But all stromshield -1 damage is a bit too much I think. I would make them way more expensive but in addition AoC for them.

[Viridovix]

Just a random thought. Storm Shields could give the -1 Damage rule. That would be good but probably not overpowered.

Hm. The idea of a shield is to parry, not to mitigate damage lorewise!

[Captain Idaho]

I'm not a fan of -1 damage. It disproportionately hurts some armies and weapons, especially coupled with Armour of Contempt.

 

-1 to wound is a possibility but I imagine that would disproportionately hurt anything S3. Still, that's a very finite number of models nowadays. I don't feel like it'd be overpowered but I might be seeing an angle here.

 

+1 Toughness works too, though would give no benefit against S6 and S7 weapons that -1 to wound would.

[Lord Raven 19]

What about making ememy units fighting you -1 to hit in melee?

[Captain Idaho]

That could work too. But what would that mean for Combat Shields?

 

I think -1 to hit in melee and 4+ Invulnerable save for Storm Shields and 5+ Invulnerable save for Combat Shields would work well.

[Medjugorje]

 

Just a random thought. Storm Shields could give the -1 Damage rule. That would be good but probably not overpowered.

Hm. The idea of a shield is to parry, not to mitigate damage lorewise!

 

In reality they were a weapon too. You cant not imagine how strong it can used in offense

 

@ captain idao - that problem is with mixed units. 

Edited May 14, 2022 by Medjugorje

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

When you look at the codex as a whole no BGV aren’t undercosted.

Yeah the problem with BGV is that most chapters need to take an impulsor for them. Which are more overcosted than BGV are undercosted. It's why BGV are rare sight in competitive list

 

That said IMO storm shields are fine. There is still value in a 4++, they just aren't auto-includes.

 

Captains with storm shields do need a fix, but honestly captains in general do. People only take jump captains with the chapter master upgrade.

[killersquid]

Would be cool if having a storm shield let you 'set to defend' like when occupying defensive terrain.

[Captain Idaho]

Oh fudge, I forgot about mixed units making things complicated.