Saga of the Terminators (post dataslate and AoC meta)

[Prot]

Thanks for writing the batreps. I’m still amazed how many lightning claws you’re using.  
 

So a few questions…. Do you think the Wulfen need shields? Could points be saved there?
 

I completely understand getting bored with a list like that…. Even if it’s successful I don’t think I could play it more than once before packing it up. 
 

I wonder if you just reduced the redundancy if you’d find it a little more fun.  The lack of shooting must add to the lack of gaming experience.  
 

what are you thinking of changing? Do you ever consider TWC? Or are you going to stick to the heavy terminator theme with all those Wulfen?
 

Thanks again. I know these write ups can take a while. :tu:

[CCE1981]

On the Librarian I am guessing he has Psychic Mastery, I really like Instincts Awoken power for pushing a unit into Assault Doctrine, and if you already are there rolling a 6 to wound grants additional AP. With all those Lightning Claws you can boost a lot of those into AP -4. Also the Armor Indomitus is probably a better Relic for him.

 

Chaplains, I find Wise Orator to be required, a 3+ with no re-rolls fails too often. Across 5x turns twice a turn is what 4x failures a game? Then you can give him The Wulfen Stone for those re-roll charges. I do like giving him a Second Trait either Aura of Majesty to extend his Litany Range or Hunter for the Advance and Charge, both Sagas are really easy to get. With Saga of Majesty you no longer need Stalwart, nothing within 6” of him is failing morale. Hunter gives you more mobility with the advance and charge. If you give him the Vox Empiritum ALL his aura’s are 9” including his Litanies. Also Canticle of Hate for +2 charge range and Exhortation of Rage to give a unit +1 to wound helps a ton.

 

I find Whirlwind of Rage an auto-include on Wolves at least, Born Heroes is the only one I have experimented with.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I get that the fists hit harder, my issue was getting Aggressors into combat in the first place. They can't teleport, or fit in an impulsor so you're either spending cp to outflank or advancing on foot. That's more my concern cause you're playing in a more competitive meta for the most part.

[TiguriusX]

I get that the fists hit harder, my issue was getting Aggressors into combat in the first place. They can't teleport, or fit in an impulsor so you're either spending cp to outflank or advancing on foot. That's more my concern cause you're playing in a more competitive meta for the most part.

You need to leverage all your tools to force the enemy within range

 

Force a trade over an objective. Something cheap like a cyberwolf or LS on an objective have to be removed or you outscore opponent...if he uses a melee unit that is your opening to counter attack

 

Banners or TTL secondaries force a move as well.

 

My aggressor test is a 6 man unit so i cant fail RND

 

Gives me the option to outflank them...RND when i arrive and spend 2 CP to shoot and maybe clear chaff as well

 

I will be testing both flamers and bolter options in the same list

 

here is first test...wil start the saga next sunday

 

T5S2 Season 5 Pod 20 (NA)

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [99 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selector**: Born Heroes , Red Scorpions, Space Wolves Successor, Whirlwind of Rage

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

A Trophy Bestowed [-1CP]

 

Thane of the Retinue [-1CP]

 

+ Agents of the Imperium +

 

Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 100pts]: Animus Speculum, Psyk-out Grenades

 

+ HQ +

 

Casan Sabius [8 PL, 145pts]: Blade of the Scorpion, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades

 

Chaplain [7 PL, -1CP, 140pts]: 2. Catechism of Fire, 5. Recitation of Focus, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Hunter, Jump Pack, Litany of Hate, Power fist, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Armour of Russ, Warlord, Wise Orator

 

Sevrin Loth [7 PL, 135pts]: 2. Murderous Hurricane, 5. Storm Caller, Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, The Magister's Axe

 

+ Troops +

 

Incursor Squad [5 PL, 105pts]

. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired combat blades

. Incursor Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Occulus bolt carbine, Paired combat blades

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

 

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

 

+ Elites +

 

Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 270pts]: 5x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant

. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: 2x Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Aggressor Squad [12 PL, 200pts]: 2x Flamestorm Gauntlets, 4x Aggressor, Aggressor Sergeant

 

Wulfen [6 PL, 145pts]

. Wulfen Pack Leader: Wulfen Frost claws

. 4x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws

 

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eradicator Squad [7 PL, 150pts]: Heavy melta rifle

. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol

. Eradicator Sgt: Bolt pistol

 

Long Fangs [7 PL, 175pts]: Armorium Cherub

. Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta

. Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta

. Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta

. Long Fang: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta

. Long Fang Pack Leader: Astartes Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Morkai's Teeth Bolts

. . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol: Bolt pistol, Boltgun

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts]: Cerberus launcher, Heavy bolter

 

Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts]: Cerberus launcher, Heavy bolter

 

Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts]: Cerberus launcher, Heavy bolter

 

++ Total: [99 PL, 9CP, 2,000pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

[TiguriusX]

Thanks for writing the batreps. I’m still amazed how many lightning claws you’re using.  

 

So a few questions…. Do you think the Wulfen need shields? Could points be saved there?

 

I completely understand getting bored with a list like that…. Even if it’s successful I don’t think I could play it more than once before packing it up. 

 

I wonder if you just reduced the redundancy if you’d find it a little more fun.  The lack of shooting must add to the lack of gaming experience.  

 

what are you thinking of changing? Do you ever consider TWC? Or are you going to stick to the heavy terminator theme with all those Wulfen?

 

Thanks again. I know these write ups can take a while.

 

LC are amazing for SW because we have savage strike and can always get +1 to wound

 

With exploding hits (2x with whirlwind of rage) the weight of numbers from LC usually provide reliable damage

In my last game the LCs did more damage to the mastodon than my chainfists did

 

The lack of shooting is 100% driving me nuts.  My standard lists have 3 shooting units (heavy melta eradicators + melta LF + grav LF)

I feel like I am fighting with 1 arm tied behind my back using this list

 

As for wulfen I think you go TH/SS or frost claw depending on your meta

Before nids became big in the meta and the TH/SS points drop I was running all frost claws and it was fine (the drukhari meta...S6 reroll wounds was gret there)

 

I am now leaning TH/SS as my primary

-S10 TH is ideal for big stuff like nid monsters/knights etc.

-TH AP doesn't matter against big stuff...usually end up hitting the invulnerable anyways

-SS is needed to get lucky and survive a round in those types of fights

 

 

 

2 reasons I don't like TWC

-Terrain + base sizes

-Too expensive and don't survive

 

Walls and big terrain are a problem for TWC.  They can't breach so all that speed is used up going around things

 

The lethality of the entire game has been cranked up this edition.  4 wounds is nothing when looking at all the guns the game has.  You leave the giant TWC anywhere in the open and they are getting blasted

 

I know SW players who still love them and use them as a defensive counter charge unit...but IMO they don't work in the competitive games

 

A character on a thunderwolf is different...you can LOS hide them...if you really love TWC I think an HQ choice still works and saves you from having to pick hunter

[TiguriusX]

Ethicalhammer (no nids but AOC dataslate in effect)

Round 3 v Tau

Map-Recover the relics

My list

++ Vanguard Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Space Wolves) [100 PL, 4CP, 2,000pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selector**: Custom Chapter, Space Wolves Successor, Stalwart, Warded

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ Stratagems +

A Trophy Bestowed [-1CP]

Stratagem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

Thane of the Retinue [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Librarian [7 PL, -1CP, 145pts]: 1. Living Lightning, 2. Murderous Hurricane, 5. Storm Caller, Chapter Command: Chief Librarian, Force sword, Frag & Krak grenades, Jump Pack, Rites of War, Smite, Storm bolter, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Armour of Russ

Primaris Chaplain on Bike [8 PL, -1CP, 150pts]: 4. Mantra of Strength, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Absolver Bolt pistol, Benediction of Fury, Chapter Command: Master of Sanctity, Crozius arcanum, Frag & Krak grenades, Hunter, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Warrior of Legend, The Imperium's Sword, Twin Bolt rifle, Warlord

+ Troops +

Infiltrator Squad [6 PL, 120pts]

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

. Infiltrator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Marksman bolt carbine

+ Elites +

Wolf Guard [7 PL, 145pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

Wolf Guard [7 PL, 145pts]: Jump Pack

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Frag & Krak grenades, Lightning Claw, Lightning Claw

Wolf Guard Terminators [18 PL, 395pts]

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Chainfist, Combi-melta

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Chainfist, Combi-melta

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader: Chainfist, Combi-melta

Wolf Guard Terminators [18 PL, 395pts]

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Chainfist, Combi-melta

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Chainfist, Combi-melta

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard in Terminator Armour: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

. Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader: Chainfist, Combi-melta

Wulfen [8 PL, 145pts]

. Wulfen Pack Leader: Wulfen Frost claws

. 4x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer

Wulfen [8 PL, 145pts]

. Wulfen Pack Leader: Wulfen Frost claws

. 4x Wulfen w/ thunder hammer & storm shield: 4x Storm Shield, 4x Thunder Hammer

+ Fast Attack +

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws

Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]

. Cyberwolf: Teeth and claws

+ Heavy Support +

Eliminator Squad [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt sniper rifle

. Eliminator Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Camo cloak, Frag & Krak grenades, Instigator Bolt Carbine, Morkai's Teeth Bolts

. 2x Eliminators: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Camo cloak, 2x Frag & Krak grenades

+ Dedicated Transport +

Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts]: Cerberus launcher, Heavy bolter

Land Speeder Storm [3 PL, 55pts]: Cerberus launcher, Heavy bolter

++ Total: [100 PL, 4CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

His list

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (T'au Empire) [16 PL, 310pts, 12CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment Command Cost

Sept Choice: Bork'an Sept

+ HQ +

Commander in Crisis Battlesuit [9 PL, 170pts]: 1. Precision of the Hunter, Burst Cannon, Burst Cannon, Iridium battlesuit, T'au Flamer, Target Lock, The Be'gel Hunter's Plate, Thermoneutronic Projector, Warlord

. 2x Marker Drone: 2x Markerlight

+ Troops +

Kroot Carnivores [3 PL, 60pts]

. 10x Kroot: 10x Kroot Rifle, 10x Quill Grenades

+ Fast Attack +

Tactical Drones [2 PL, 40pts]

. 4x Marker Drone: 4x Markerlight

Tactical Drones [2 PL, 40pts]

. 4x Marker Drone: 4x Markerlight

++ Super-Heavy Detachment -6CP (T'au Empire) [84 PL, 1,690pts, -6CP] ++

+ Configuration +

Detachment Command Cost [-6CP]

Sept Choice: Bork'an Sept

+ Lord of War +

KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour [50 PL, 1,000pts]: 2x Tri-axis Ion Cannon, 3x Pulse Ordnance Multi-driver

Stormsurge [17 PL, 345pts]: Multi-tracker, Pulse Blastcannon, Twin Burst Cannon, Velocity Tracker

Stormsurge [17 PL, 345pts]: Early Warning Override, Pulse Blastcannon, Twin Burst Cannon, Velocity Tracker

++ Total: [100 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net/)

Pregame & Deployment

My picks

-Stranglehold (not much obsec in his army)

-Banners

-Oath (please go 2nd!!!)

His picks

-Stranglehold

-Banners

-Grind

I put both terminators and 1 wulfen in reserve

Not enough room to hide and it will take forever to waddle close

The wulfen are there to give a free reroll to charge when terminators land

I just barely push my infiltrators in the wedge of the terrain to hold an objective safely

Eliminators in the rear give LOS protection to my chaplain on the exposed objective

Left flank is a death trap...have my wolves and LS there to throw away as needed

He spreads his units the only place they can be basically

Note on the terrain...lots of obscuring but TO ruled if you can "touch" you count as in and therefore can shoot through. His big tau toys can all move forward and get easy sight lines on the map if they want

BATREP

I get 1st turn...noooooooo

Ok I do a simple and fast score and hide turn

The biggest question is how do I raise my banners

I realize I made a mistake and only have 1 banner raiser on the left flank...my rune priest

If he steps out and raises a banner he is dead

My rear objective also sucks b/c the biker chaplain can't raise a banner...need to exposed the WG to fire and have them hop on it

I raise 2 banners but hide on left instead of risking death

LS goes middle hoping to be ignored and score oath

1 tiny wolf bravely steps into the death objective on the left

I shuffle WG on right to be closer to the wall so their jump distance to the middle is decreased slightly

Score stranglehold...yay

His turn

He moves up...shoots middle LS and cyberwolf

Kills 2/5 WG who had to raise banner with his long range guns

SMS kills 1 wulfen only...new rules helping me a ton here

Not a bad turn at all

Turn 2

I actually am short on time and tired for this game...had a yard sale and then dump run for everything left over...raced back to play when it was done...so my brain...not in shape for a thinking match.

I say YOLO and bring in terminators b/c I see a fun opportunity

His crisis suit commander raised a banner but left himself as the closest target

I get all 20 terminators in range with the commander as closest target

I am also able to maneuver them to have 9" range to the giant taunar in the middle

Wulfen pop up within 6" to give them rerolls and have a good obscured position to launch forward next turn

With my plans in place the chaplain auto chants CANTICLE OF HATE and advances to give the terminators his bubble and attempt a charge at taunar

I put right side WG in assault doctrine...I'm at 2 CP now...and they launch in the middle

Left flank pushes up as well...he can't kill everything right?

LS#2 goes to middle

Rune priest raises a banner and then casts on the giant taunar

MH to shut down overwatch and smite for 3

First volley! Termies get fury of first and 10 combi meltas hitting on 2 exactly kill commander

Second volley! Only a few are in range of Taunar but 2nd squad manages 3 melta wounds. I roll 1-1-2 for 8 damage only

The critical part of the turn comes!!!

I fail the 7" rerollable charge with BOTH termie squads

uggggg

WG make charge

Chaplain makes charge

Wulfen left flank fail 10" charge (was expected but woulda been nice)

I do not expect to kill the taunar with chaplain and 1 WG only

Chaplain gets 0 wounds through

WG manage 8 wounds with savage strike wounding on 5s rerolling

The giant taunar is down to 11 wounds

He kills 1 WG with a kick

I am so deflated over charges I forget a screenshot...sorry

His turn

He gets his revenge

Marker light nail me and both storm surges drop anchor to blast me

The taunar walks away out of combat leaving me far away

Stormsurge1 shooting kills WG in middle

Kills 2/4 wulfen on left flank

Big taunar kills 7/10 terminators

Chaplain eats a super Borkan shot and dies

Terminator2 only lose 1 model and tank the stormsurge

Termies1 fail morale and lose another to the follow up roll (packleader only survivor left)

The good news is he totally ignored the LS so I get big oath points...yay!

Turn 3

I wish I was closer to the taunar...I can't hit it with melta as I waddle the terminators closer

I keep pushing forward to take away his objectives

RP advances forward onto the objective with his obsec bubble

LS joins him and Wulfen push up

If I get lucky I can flip this point

WG from rear advance and jump to stand on my left objective

This forces my eliminators forward now to stand on my rear objective

Terminators waddle forward to threaten the stormsurge

Lone survivor leads the way in

Wulfen push up as well

RP gets LL and kills 2 kroot and 1 drone

Meltas do nothing...he makes all his invulnerable saves

All charges made on right (2 termie units + wulfen)

LS makes charge but wulfen fail on left (needed a 9...oh well)

Combat is horrific...even with savage strike letting them wound on 2s I only manage 9 damage on the surge (he made a TON of invulnerable saves)

Good news is I ripped his banner off and pushed in to contest his rear objective and take his right one

I also got in deep on the left flank with LS and RP to tie

His turn

He gets 0 primary...I'm about to pay for it though

He unloads and kills entire termie2 squad

Bad dice only kill 2/3 WG on the left and I hold that objective

Somehow the LS and runepriest are also alive

So is 1 wulfen and the lone surviving terminator

Wulfen tanks the drones who try to pick off his last wound and smashes the entire squad in melee to earn a relic point.

I'm almost out of bodies at this point

Turn 4

I basically stay put and keep taking his punches

I don't want to run away and lose morale so LS and RP are tarpit with a surge

His turn

Surge laughs b/c he isn't tarpit...he steps away and shoots

The LS dies but the RP tanks and lives

He kills the solo WG and my eliminators to rip me off 2 objectives

Turn 5

I don't have anything to do really

His turn

He tables me

Final & Recap

79-77

SW victory!!!

Phew...wasn't expecting that...I didn't realize I had kept his points down just enough to pull this off

Felt defeated watching my army get blown to bits.

But it did what I designed it to do...scored primary and held on long enough to win the game...barely

The AOC data slate changes to Tau were huuuuge

SMS out of LOS...not scary anymore

I am submarining my way up the lists and am 2-1 with 1 round to play