Simple things to help fix Space Marines

[Lemondish]

No marines in top 10 at Dallas GT this past weekend… there was one sisters army though.

The YHP 40k GT was won by Dark Angels with a 5th place finish for Deathwatch, and a 9th place finish for White Scars as well.

 

Grey Knights ended up 2nd at both the Battle Shock GT and the Clash Of Alba 2022 and took the West Of Scotland GT#2.

 

Oddly enough, CSM placed 3rd at the FactoruM DZTV April GT.

 

Considering the number of improved placements for Sisters and we start to see just how impactful AoC really is even in a meta where we have Tyranids, Tau, Harlies, and Custodes. A few other simple tweaks may be all that's needed for more Marine finishes.

 

But to be, the biggest issue is really just how much of the baseline Marine factions need some help. I want Imperial Fists to be feared again lol

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Dallas GT is a super open with eight rounds.

[Lemondish]

The Dallas GT is a super open with eight rounds.

Sure, but does that mean we should be judging the efficacy of changes exclusively on a single event? Not sure what the point you're making here is.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How many participants were at each of the events you listed ?

[Medjugorje]

I think Marines are very fine right now. Just their complete obsolete pointcosts take the fun away.

 

For example the Primaris Bikers are an very nice unit but they are so insane overcosted.

[Lemondish]

How many participants were at each of the events you listed ?

I've played this game before. How about you give me the arbitrary number you're looking for and I'll tell you which ones meet or exceed it so I can be sure you aren't going to just waste time prior to moving the goalposts, bud.

[phandaal]

Apparently the only tournament that matters is the Dallas GT, but just looking at top finishers from the various tournaments this weekend it is obvious that Armor of Contempt made a big difference.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s obvious the results from a major are more telling than compared to smaller events. Yeah of course AoC is huge - the Seattle GW major is this weekend so that should provide some useful insight. Any event with 8 rounds is a big deal.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[phandaal]

It’s obvious the results from a major are more telling than compared to smaller events. Yeah of course AoC is huge - the Seattle GW major is this weekend so that should provide some useful insight. Any event with 8 rounds is a big deal.

Do not think anyone is discounting the importance of large events. On the flip side, a larger event having certain top army compositions does not invalidate the results of other tournaments.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Of course not but eight rounds tend to be more telling for a variety of good reasons.

[phandaal]

I am actually happier seeing a mix of events where Space Marines did well and did not do well than I would be seeing Space Marines taking top spots everywhere.

 

Other factions got a boost from AoC as well, which means the relative power gain for Space Marines is lessened.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I don't think the people trying to win a major were going pivot at the last minute. When they do its more because something broken was just released, and it's bad for the game.

 

Armor of contempt is good but isn't a straight buff. For example, Vanguard Vets have basically been the best marine infantry unit this edition, and they got worse. Storm shield bonus isn't as good, and lightning claws don't have great AP. Thats going to be tough starting spot for a competitive player who probably has 30 of them painted up.

 

Looking at the marine lists that have done well since the data slate it's mainly been chapters that have unique units. Which makes sense because they don't rely on storm shields as much. I do think we'll start seeing more marines place, but I think it'll take some time for people to adjust.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Thing is peop just looking at power armor vs power armor when more often than not it won’t be.

 

“Armor of contempt is good but isn't a straight buff. For example, Vanguard Vets have basically been the best marine infantry unit this edition, and they got worse.” I don’t think most will stop taking the stormshield for their vets so at worse is a wash.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Thing is peop just looking at power armor vs power armor when more often than not it won’t be.

 

“Armor of contempt is good but isn't a straight buff. For example, Vanguard Vets have basically been the best marine infantry unit this edition, and they got worse.” I don’t think most will stop taking the stormshield for their vets so at worse is a wash.

 

I think they'll keep the stormshields as well I said the bonus for them wasn't as good not that they were bad. The issue is with lightning claws and like I said they'll adjust but they are going to have to do some modeling. Vanguard vets are really flexible unit, they'll find the new optimal loadout soon enough.

 

That said it's a lot easier to just take Nids. 4 in the top 8 is pretty darn good (or bad from a balance perspective). 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

This is why I favor results from majors over relatively small local events.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

This is why I favor results from majors over relatively small local events.

 

I sorta of agree because I think the top players are more likely to go to the majors, but just read this week's Goonhammer competitive innovation article. The GT that DA won had two nids players in the top 8. Most of the GTs they covered had Nids placing (I think there was one exception) you don't need a major to realize that nids are a problem. If you keep pushing power creep than marines will pretty much always need to be fixed along with basically any fraction that isn't one of top 3. Its why I think some of the best fixes for marines were the nerfs to custodes & tau.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

This is why I favor results from majors over relatively small local events.

yeah. It’s like comparing the NFL to college ball, or UFC to regional promotions.

 

However the local/smaller events can still provide some insight into what more normal players are doing and how well that works.

[Medjugorje]

it totally depends on the tournament. We have "small" events in my area where third of the players are very good and already have showen success multiple times in bigger events. And there are bigger events where the player base has much less experienced players. But if you take the top 20% of each tournament out there I think you could have already a good impression where its going to be.