The Sanguinor post AoC

[Djangomatic82]

I've been looking at the Sanguinor in light of the changes brought about by the survivability buff from Armour of Contempt. I don't think he's an auto take, but as a third HQ choice in a battalion, he may be interesting if you face a lot of opponents that can punch back, or punch first against our units.

[dice4thedicegod]

He still seems way to anaemic to me. Astorath seems ok (though probably still short of the primaris biker captain). Maybe Mephiston . Dante is ok.

 

The sanguinor just seems lackluster compared to the above.

[Paladin777]

The Aura of Fervor not stacking with Shock Assault is pretty damning. If he was about 20 points less he'd probably see play, but would still be far from an auto-include.

 

The AP4 on the sword is kinda nice though and would help with opposing AoC.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Paladin777

[Morticon]

His greatest use is by far the arrive from reserve into combat ability - this means he gets to use Angels Sacrifice and save some key units.  The issue is, that even with AOC, he's not as survivable as he needs to be for this ability.  

[Djangomatic82]

I tend to agree with everyone assessment.  I think my curiosity is piqued by him if I think of the Sanguinor as being in the same vein as another "Fights Last" protection mechanic for us when combo'd with Angels Sacrifice.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

My problem with special characters in general is you are shoe horned into red thirst. Currently RT is, in my opinion from our banter, weaker than custom chapter rules.

 

You can DIY stronger or equivalent characters.

[Grim Crafter]

My problem with special characters in general is you are shoe horned into red thirst. Currently RT is, in my opinion from our banter, weaker than custom chapter rules.

 

You can DIY stronger or equivalent characters.

 

But then you are talking about Successor chapter only if you aren't taking RT, which you just might as well not even go for BA successor entirely. 

[Djangomatic82]

Yeah, I think i get what your saying. Though I was under the impression that, RAW, if you go successors, you lose access to parent chapter named characters and relics.

I'd also say that having to pay 150 points and 1 cp makes me ponder.

[Paladin777]

Yeah, I think i get what your saying. Though I was under the impression that, RAW, if you go successors, you lose access to parent chapter named characters and relics.

I'd also say that having to pay 150 points and 1 cp makes me ponder.

Considering that there's a specific requisition strategem that gives a model from a successor chapter access to Blood Angels specific relics, I would imagine that you're right.

 

But then you are talking about Successor chapter only if you aren't taking RT, which you just might as well not even go for BA successor entirely.

Maybe, but if you don't play as a BA successor, then you lose access to SG, DC, and warlord traits like Artisan of War (iirc). So that's definitely worth considering.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Paladin777

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

My problem with special characters in general is you are shoe horned into red thirst. Currently RT is, in my opinion from our banter, weaker than custom chapter rules.

 

You can DIY stronger or equivalent characters.

But then you are talking about Successor chapter only if you aren't taking RT, which you just might as well not even go for BA successor entirely.

Not true. I play successors exclusively, and having access to Death Company and Sanguinary Guard is still important to me, and offers a wider variety of optimization for both of those units. Lore wise the Sanguinor has come to many successor chapters aide, however the rules bar him from being taken. On top of that special characters aren't the overwhelming majority of auto includes they have been in the past.

 

In the case of the Sanguinor, he has not been good for several editions, and AoC doesn't give him enough for what he offers and does on the table top. He's a warp entity and should be on par with a blood thirster, but he isn't even close.

[Helias_Tancred]

 

In the case of the Sanguinor, he has not been good for several editions, and AoC doesn't give him enough for what he offers and does on the table top. He's a warp entity and should be on par with a blood thirster, but he isn't even close.

 

 

Agreed.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Helias Tancred

[dice4thedicegod]

 

 

 

My problem with special characters in general is you are shoe horned into red thirst. Currently RT is, in my opinion from our banter, weaker than custom chapter rules.

 

You can DIY stronger or equivalent characters.

But then you are talking about Successor chapter only if you aren't taking RT, which you just might as well not even go for BA successor entirely.

Not true. I play successors exclusively, and having access to Death Company and Sanguinary Guard is still important to me, and offers a wider variety of optimization for both of those units. Lore wise the Sanguinor has come to many successor chapters aide, however the rules bar him from being taken. On top of that special characters aren't the overwhelming majority of auto includes they have been in the past.

 

In the case of the Sanguinor, he has not been good for several editions, and AoC doesn't give him enough for what he offers and does on the table top. He's a warp entity and should be on par with a blood thirster, but he isn't even close.

Yeah, it would be nice if the sanguinor and Astorath could be used by successors.

[Paladin777]

Heck, if they did nothing but make the Encarmine Broadsword flat D3 he might be worth taking. But right now it's a hard pass outside of beer-and-pretzels games.

[Djangomatic82]

I have been thinking about him for match ups against units like Banshee's, that can fight first against us and pose a legit threat to a lot of our premier units. having the Sanguinor in our back pocket with Angel's Sacrifice really changes the tactical arithmetic your opponent has to do if they think they can usually rely on those special abilities to hard counter our more punchy units. I think the appeal he is posing to me is that, unlike the Whirlwind Strat, Veil of Time, etc..., all we have to do is pay the 150 points cost and save 1 cp, instead of having to pre plan and manuevre, and successfully hit/cast those other options.

And if you don't end up playing against something like that, he is still a Punchy guy. Yeah his aura's are trash, but he can hit as hard as most any other character we have.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Djangomatic82

[dice4thedicegod]

I have been thinking about him for match ups against units like Banshee's, that can fight first against us and pose a legit threat to a lot of our premier units. having the Sanguinor in our back pocket with Angel's Sacrifice really changes the tactical arithmetic your opponent has to do if they think they can usually rely on those special abilities to hard counter our more punchy units. I think the appeal he is posing to me is that, unlike the Whirlwind Strat, Veil of Time, etc..., all we have to do is pay the 150 points cost and save 1 cp, instead of having to pre plan and manuevre, and successfully hit/cast those other options.

And if you don't end up playing against something like that, he is still a Punchy guy. Yeah his aura's are trash, but he can hit as hard as most any other character we have.

But is that sacrificing a 150 point character and cp, in order to save a 150 point unit?

[Djangomatic82]

 

I have been thinking about him for match ups against units like Banshee's, that can fight first against us and pose a legit threat to a lot of our premier units. having the Sanguinor in our back pocket with Angel's Sacrifice really changes the tactical arithmetic your opponent has to do if they think they can usually rely on those special abilities to hard counter our more punchy units. I think the appeal he is posing to me is that, unlike the Whirlwind Strat, Veil of Time, etc..., all we have to do is pay the 150 points cost and save 1 cp, instead of having to pre plan and manuevre, and successfully hit/cast those other options.

And if you don't end up playing against something like that, he is still a Punchy guy. Yeah his aura's are trash, but he can hit as hard as most any other character we have.

But is that sacrificing a 150 point character and cp, in order to save a 150 point unit?

 

Generally, I see it being used to save a unit of SG of 6+ models(192pts+), DC  5 man with 3 TH squads (160pts+) or 10man VV's (220pts+).

So yeah, its always for a tactically crucial unit costing over 150 points.

 

But i think the value is that The Sanguinor's Miraculous Savior ability doesn't just give it to those premier units.

If you are relying on a unit to score the last few points that will push you over the top for a win, but you know it is in threat range of an assault unit that can wipe it, most of our other protection options all require another unit to be on the table, in range, if not LoS, and succeed on a die roll.

 

The Sanguinor is not a strictly better option to those, but it is an option that provides similar protection at a DIFFERENT opportunity cost to Suppression Fire, Veil of Time, Speed of the Primarch or the Judiciar's Tempormortis ability. And I "Think" that difference might be valuable, since it isnt just another "Fight First" ability that good players plan around because it is now so prevalent.

[Morticon]

As if on cue....

 

A Sanguinor list just went 5-1 at a 130 Player event in Germany. 

 

Granted, it was "just" Sanguinary Guard spam (3x10 SG)  <_< which...raises a touch of a ire in me.  But, he still did it.  So, credit where credit is due. 

I believe list was:

 

Priest

Chaplain On Bike

Sanguinor

 

Ancient

3x10 SG

1x 9 Vanguard

 

1x 5 Intercessors 

2x Servitor Squads. 

 

Speeder Storm. 

 

 

_______________

Absolutely not what I'd be interested in playing, but props for making it work.

[Jolemai]

Thought it was 5-0 and he finished 2nd (no Tyranid games though)

 

DA, Necrons, 1kS twice, Harlequins with eight Starweavers...

Edited May 10, 2022 by Jolemai

[Jolemai]

Remind me, what does the LSS achieve with nothing to transport? Advance and park in their Deployment zone?

[keeblerartillery]

How precisely does one find out about these things without goonhammer telling you? I’d love to be able to find out faster lol

[Morticon]

Remind me, what does the LSS achieve with nothing to transport? Advance and park in their Deployment zone?

 

Turns off overwatch of a unit within 6" for a CP.  

How precisely does one find out about these things without goonhammer telling you? I’d love to be able to find out faster lol

 

Various international communities !  When you're an expat, and you're in a bunch of groups, you have this constant feed of info from multiple places all the time.  But, I think it was from Goonhammer, and then someone just used the BCP app to get the list.  

[Blindhamster]

As if on cue....

 

A Sanguinor list just went 5-1 at a 130 Player event in Germany.

 

Granted, it was "just" Sanguinary Guard spam (3x10 SG) <_< which...raises a touch of a ire in me. But, he still did it. So, credit where credit is due.

 

I believe list was:

 

Priest

Chaplain On Bike

Sanguinor

 

Ancient

3x10 SG

1x 9 Vanguard

 

1x 5 Intercessors

2x Servitor Squads.

 

Speeder Storm.

 

 

_______________

 

Absolutely not what I'd be interested in playing, but props for making it work.

Seems like the kind of list that will see SG get a nerf or lose AoC

[Morticon]

 

As if on cue....

 

A Sanguinor list just went 5-1 at a 130 Player event in Germany.

 

Granted, it was "just" Sanguinary Guard spam (3x10 SG) which...raises a touch of a ire in me. But, he still did it. So, credit where credit is due.

 

I believe list was:

 

Priest

Chaplain On Bike

Sanguinor

 

Ancient

3x10 SG

1x 9 Vanguard

 

1x 5 Intercessors

2x Servitor Squads.

 

Speeder Storm.

 

 

_______________

 

Absolutely not what I'd be interested in playing, but props for making it work.

Seems like the kind of list that will see SG get a nerf or lose AoC

 

 

 

Which is another reason it annoys me to great end.  :(