Raven Guard 9th edition codex wish list

[XeonDragon]

So, with rumours of a Space Marines 2.0 Codex coming out, I thought why not kick off a thread about what we'd like to see in any Raven Guard 9th edition codex.

 

My initial thoughts:

 

1. If our chapter tactics are retained in their current form, explicitly provide the +1 to save stacks with terrain bonuses, so RG +2 to save when in terrain that gives light cover. This, combined with AoC would make us really hard to shift from cover.
2. Buff the chapter tactics by shortening the distances.
3. Have a good range of RG-specific model upgrades including allowing:
   1. all infantry models (except with jump packs) to take camo cloaks
   2. all infantry models to take a lightning claw in place of bolt pistols, or at least give it as an option to squad sergeants
   3. allow all infantry models to a infiltrator comms array style upgrade, linking to phobos captains or lieutenants (very fluffy I think)
   4. allow troop unit sergeants to take instigator carbines or bolt sniper rifles, so the sergeant can target characters
4. Allow RG to take scouts as troops (subject to limits, e.g. max 2 units in a strike force game)
5. Some special units such as:
   1. Special sniper units (maybe allow eliminators to be taken in units up to 5 in RG?)
   2. Mor Deythan equivalents
   3. Dark Fury units (make them RG sanguinary guard equivalents, maybe with a native -1 to hit instead of 2+?)
   4. Sable brand units (think Death Company from BA, but maybe +1 to wound instead of +1 attack and retain ability to fall back?)
   5. Phobos apothecary with jump pack, or just an apothecary with jump pack or grav shute and grapnel
   6. Named shadow captains and lieutenants.
6. Better stratagems:
   1. Redeployment at least as good as Ultramarines
   2. Maybe a “blip” like ability for deployment modelled on GSC?
   3. Some form of GSC-like "Cross fire" ability
   4. A better, but more fluffy version of ultramarines "defensive focus" overwatch stratagem where units in terrain that are within 12" of a charged unit can fire overwatch at 5+ for 1CP?
   5. Make Morbidus bolts and saboteur explosive pack stratagems available outside the army of renown
   6. Allow master of the tri-fold path to be used more than once, so we can have characters with two warlord traits
   7. A stratagem to allow two relics on the warlord, but maybe restricted to one RG-specific one and one general, rather than two RG or two general relics.
   8. A "called shot" stratagem where you can target a specific model in a unit.
   9. A native version of guerrilla tactics, maybe keyed to camo cloaks so, in effect, RG could "guerrilla tactic" two units per turn.
7. Better psychic powers:
   1. Shadowstep able to move a character or a unit.
   2. New misdirection power that allows two unit to “switch” place on the battle field when targeted by shooting or a charge
8. Better relics:
   1. Make the armour umbral available outside the army of renown
9. Better warlord traits:
   1. Make feigned flight a 6” aura
   2. Make echo of the ravenspire allow, for 1CP, to become a 6” aura.
   3. Make shadow master also include fight-first.

Anyway, what would you all like to see?

[duz_]

Mor Deythan and Dark Fury units would be amazing! :wub:

 

Reducing the minimum distance for our CT would be nice. That would at least accommodate for the smaller table size. I would like it to go back to native -1 to hit. Vehicles I could accept being +1 save as native.

 

Seeing as SW got special Reivers, I'd like us to get something similar. Where that unit or another Phobos unit.

Scouts as troops :cry:

Edited May 3, 2022 by duz_

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, yeah. I would like to see a unit with a similar loadout to Shrike. It's nice to drop him in, and have him buff, and join in the fray to tip the scales a bit, but he is out of place.

 

Master of Ambush is nice! Warlord and infantry that is mot Centurions can essentially Infiltrate. I would like an additional WL Trait where, same conditions, but they can Outflank.

 

I would rather RG infantry get smoke grenafes as long as they already have frag and krak grenades. It would make us more mobile, rather than incentivizing a static force that hides in cover.

 

Shortening the distances because of smaller board sizes is definitely a good idea.

 

I like the idea of an Apothecary with a jump pack or just Grav Chutes. I usually use a Librarian to Shadow Step them across the board.

 

Deadly Price used in conjunction with a Haywire Mine from Incursors camping an objective is fun. I want to see a way to sabotage terrain in general. A stratagem to set up frag grenades as anti personnel mines that go off if the unit is charged while they are in terrain, and setting to defend.

 

Some kind of flare round for Astartes Grenade Launchers that removes an enemy's benefits from cover. Or even give Intercessors accesss to the Shock Grenades Keyword, if they take an Astartes Grenade Launcher.

 

See, with the Raven Guard's decentralized organization, I disagree that the Comms Array idea is fluffy. If anything, we should have more Heroes of the Chapter available, with more characters allowed. Like if you take 2 Lieutenants in a HQ slot, they can both benefit from Hero of the Chapter, counting as only one use.

 

I would love to see Mor Deythan! I don't know about the Camo Cloaks. Maybe if there was a whole new kit, but likely there will not be. Mor Deythan could be Veteran Intercessors with upgraded Stalker Bolt Rifles. Yeah, let them pick models out of a unit to remove squad leaders and any models with special or heavy weapons. That would be awesome. Give them a Wraith Slip stratagem where they can use a mini Echoes of the Ravenspire.

 

The biggest issue is balancing the incentives to take Phobos units, and our ability to grant infiltrate and deep strike to units that normally could not. I mean, I want both, but I don't want to see cheese and our best units spammed, and for faction hoppers to jump on the bandwagon until the next powerful codex comes out. I truly despise seeing unpainted, barely assembled models on the table because some pathetic person is in a rush to play the new hotness.

 

Also, it's an economic issue. From GW all the way to the players. If they have to add bits to the box, it will cost more to make, and that cost will of course be passed on. I don't want to pay more of my hard earned money than I have to. Some of us have real jobs.

 

Also, in terms of fluff, Deliverance is a moon that orbits the Khiavir, which is essentially a Forge World. So, while we don't always have the manpower, we always have excellent gear. It's why, a couple additions ago, we had jump pack that could be used when moving and charging, not forcing you to choose between being able to move farther or reroll your charge distance. Like, I would be overjoyed to see Reivers get to keep their knives when they take carbines, but the carbines are Instigator Carbines, and the knives deal mortal wounds on 6+ to wound.

[Lord Raven 19]

Hopefully, our CT will go to what the sneaky Tyrannid hive fleet got (dense cover out of 18" for monsters (vehicles) and 12" for anyone else).

I'm hoping for Shrike to get his CM wound and extra LC attacks back.

Primaris Jump pack LC unit to go with him would be even better.

I'd love to field larger squads of eliminators and suppressors (outriders too). 

It would be nice if our superdoctrine affected the same targets as the 'Slay the Tyrants' Stratagem, it'd give it a bit more utility.

[Jaipii]

I think that Armour of Contempt has made us (RG) much more viable to play without Successor tactics. What I would like to see is keep the light cover if >18" away and receive the Tyranids version of -1 to hit from >12" for infantry,bikers etc. And -1 to hit from >18" away for vehicles.

 

The Relics section and Psychic discipline are the ones that would need the most help. Bring in some unit upgrades like in the Black Templars codex: Camo-cloaks to infantry unit (power armour), specialist ammunition, some character killing melee and ranged weapons, some infiltration devices?

[XeonDragon]

I think that Armour of Contempt has made us (RG) much more viable to play without Successor tactics. What I would like to see is keep the light cover if >18" away and receive the Tyranids version of -1 to hit from >12" for infantry,bikers etc. And -1 to hit from >18" away for vehicles.

 

The Relics section and Psychic discipline are the ones that would need the most help. Bring in some unit upgrades like in the Black Templars codex: Camo-cloaks to infantry unit (power armour), specialist ammunition, some character killing melee and ranged weapons, some infiltration devices?

 That sounds good - I'd still like to see the chapter tactics stack with light cover from terrain however :)

Hopefully, our CT will go to what the sneaky Tyrannid hive fleet got (dense cover out of 18" for monsters (vehicles) and 12" for anyone else).

I'm hoping for Shrike to get his CM wound and extra LC attacks back.

Primaris Jump pack LC unit to go with him would be even better.

I'd love to field larger squads of eliminators and suppressors (outriders too). 

It would be nice if our superdoctrine affected the same targets as the 'Slay the Tyrants' Stratagem, it'd give it a bit more utility.

Agree about Shrike. I'd love to see some other named characters as well. I'd also REALLY like to see one or two successors given their own part of the codex, the way the flesh tearers got in the BA codex.

 

Here is a crazy idea: jump pack rievers. I said what I said! (but jump pack incursors or jump pack assault intercessors would be better!)

Well, yeah. I would like to see a unit with a similar loadout to Shrike. It's nice to drop him in, and have him buff, and join in the fray to tip the scales a bit, but he is out of place.

 

Master of Ambush is nice! Warlord and infantry that is mot Centurions can essentially Infiltrate. I would like an additional WL Trait where, same conditions, but they can Outflank.

 

I would rather RG infantry get smoke grenafes as long as they already have frag and krak grenades. It would make us more mobile, rather than incentivizing a static force that hides in cover.

 

Shortening the distances because of smaller board sizes is definitely a good idea.

 

I like the idea of an Apothecary with a jump pack or just Grav Chutes. I usually use a Librarian to Shadow Step them across the board.

 

Deadly Price used in conjunction with a Haywire Mine from Incursors camping an objective is fun. I want to see a way to sabotage terrain in general. A stratagem to set up frag grenades as anti personnel mines that go off if the unit is charged while they are in terrain, and setting to defend.

 

Some kind of flare round for Astartes Grenade Launchers that removes an enemy's benefits from cover. Or even give Intercessors accesss to the Shock Grenades Keyword, if they take an Astartes Grenade Launcher.

 

See, with the Raven Guard's decentralized organization, I disagree that the Comms Array idea is fluffy. If anything, we should have more Heroes of the Chapter available, with more characters allowed. Like if you take 2 Lieutenants in a HQ slot, they can both benefit from Hero of the Chapter, counting as only one use.

 

I would love to see Mor Deythan! I don't know about the Camo Cloaks. Maybe if there was a whole new kit, but likely there will not be. Mor Deythan could be Veteran Intercessors with upgraded Stalker Bolt Rifles. Yeah, let them pick models out of a unit to remove squad leaders and any models with special or heavy weapons. That would be awesome. Give them a Wraith Slip stratagem where they can use a mini Echoes of the Ravenspire.

 

The biggest issue is balancing the incentives to take Phobos units, and our ability to grant infiltrate and deep strike to units that normally could not. I mean, I want both, but I don't want to see cheese and our best units spammed, and for faction hoppers to jump on the bandwagon until the next powerful codex comes out. I truly despise seeing unpainted, barely assembled models on the table because some pathetic person is in a rush to play the new hotness.

 

Also, it's an economic issue. From GW all the way to the players. If they have to add bits to the box, it will cost more to make, and that cost will of course be passed on. I don't want to pay more of my hard earned money than I have to. Some of us have real jobs.

 

Also, in terms of fluff, Deliverance is a moon that orbits the Khiavir, which is essentially a Forge World. So, while we don't always have the manpower, we always have excellent gear. It's why, a couple additions ago, we had jump pack that could be used when moving and charging, not forcing you to choose between being able to move farther or reroll your charge distance. Like, I would be overjoyed to see Reivers get to keep their knives when they take carbines, but the carbines are Instigator Carbines, and the knives deal mortal wounds on 6+ to wound.

Smoke grendades and flares infantry as options would be nice :) 

[Jacques Corbin]

A fleshed out successor would be great. I believe Forge World stills has a tight grip on the Raptors, but the Raven Guard has been remolded in their image so much in this edition. We became a stealthy gunline as opposed to the jump pack ninjas of previous editions. My vote is Necropolis Hawks.

 

We are a chapter that shines when the Tactical Doctrine is in effect, therefore we will need ways to leverage our small arms better. More proliferation of the Covering Fire rule would be great. Both Reivers and Incursors would be great if they could move after shooting (and still charge).

 

I also want to see more redeployment shenanigans for us. Quite a few time I have utilized Lord of Deceit on my Phobos Librarian as well as Master of Ambush on a Chaplain, Techmarine, or even Apothecary. That's a character and a non-Centurion infantry unit redeployed, and then up to 3 phobos unit redeployed. While hardly your whole army, that is moving Eliminators to better lines of sight, swapping the places of Infiltrators and Incursors, etc. Being able to redeploy after your opponent has committed to their deployment is a valuable advantage.

 

In terms of a new kit, I want a Storm Speeder variant that loses the Sponsons, and the turret, to transport 6 Chapter Phobos models, and as long as it does not advance, they can disembark to shoot and charge after it moved. Give it the option to make a regular move after deployment but before turn 1, or to arrive via Outflank on turn 2 or 3. Also, give it the deep strike denial bubble like Infiltrators and the Phobos Captain get. Finally give it the option to take any of the Las Talons, Onslaught Gatling, or Melta the other Storm Speeders can take, and let those embarked shoot from inside it. I would buy 4 the day they came out! I'll even suggest the promotional, to-be-nerfed-later rule. If the transport does not advance, and units do not disembark, they can fire from inside, and count as having been stationary during the movement phase. No heavy weapons to exploit that with, as yet, but that does trigger Rapid Fire due to Bolter Discipline.

 

I don't totally dislike being a stealthy gunline army, but I want more options to to attack from other angles. That is why I mentioned more Outflank above. We tend to force opponents to come to us, but unlike Tau where we just expect the enemy to charge into overwhelming firepower, we drop in, or arrive from the flank, and spring our trap.

 

Also, if we got a named character, my vote is a Techmarine. Again, Khiavir is a Forgeworld so we have good tech. Now imagine if this Techmarine can take 0-3 servitors. I also suggest a new servitor type. Imagine a hunchbacked servitor, with a smoke generator in/on the hunch. That servitor gives the smokescreen keyword to a Dreadnought or Invictor warsuit, or they can use the stratagem for free and even if another vehicle benefitted from it, but the servitor dies.

[XeonDragon]

They are really cool ideas, especially the new storm speeder variant :)

[Jacques Corbin]

I would bring Gladiatiors, if they gave us a mock up rule. Imagine bringing 2 Lancers but one is a mock up. Only the real one can shoot, and the mock up has the same toughness, can't move, and once the mock up takes an unsaved wound from a S6+ weapon it is removed, and does not explode. Just write "real" on one slip of paper, "mock up" on another, fold them, and place them under each vehicle discretely. It would be hilarious! Theoretically there would be a 50/50 chance of the mock up being destroyed before the real tank, BUT a canny opponent would look at how they are deployed. Theoretically, the real tank would be deployed with better lines of sight, but not be sitting out in the open begging to be fired upon, and if there is a Techmarine, he would be closer to the real tank, and that is EXACTLY what I would want my opponent to think.

 

Like, make it a stratagem, one use only. I would pay 2CP. Then if a RG Master of the Forge is taken, then the strat costs 0CP and can be used one additional time as a Warlord trait for the MoF. And of course, not just Gladiators, but y'know.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Jacques Corbin

[XeonDragon]

That would be awesome! love it!