How many marines is too many (first time Heresy player)

[StraightSilver]

Hi everybody,

 

So a while ago I really wanted to get into Heresy.... I bought all the books, bought 2 x copies of Betrayal at Calth and 2 x copies of Burning of Prospero and some resin FW stuff.

 

And then, loads of life stuff and other projects happened and I didn't really get far with getting started... at all....

 

So now the new edition is coming out, and I had planned to get 2 x copies of the new box.

 

Until I actually tallied up what I already have....

 

So my question is - what to do with what I already have?

 

If I include 1 x copy of the new set I will have as follows:

 

2 x Captain Terminator Armour

3 x Contemptor Dread

20 x Cataphractii Terminators

70 x MKIV Marines

10 x Tartaros Terminators

60 x MKIII Marines

1 x Praetor

1 x Standard bearer

1 x Captain Power Armour

5 x MKIV Assault Marines

1 x Sicaran

1 x Spartan

30 x MKVI Marines

 

That's a lot of stuff....

So my question is - should I just equip all 30 MKVI with special and heavy weapons, which leaves me with 130 bolter armed marines?

 

Of those remaining 130 MKIVs and MKIIIs should some of those be veteran squads?

 

Do I already have way too much stuff and should I get rid of some, or will this give me flexibility or will I just have a ton of unused stuff?

 

I plan to play Ulramarines so I also have the FW Guilliman.

I have the books to make up lists but I have played zero games and feel a bit overwhelmed... I should stop buying so much stuff, lol.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

Wow, that's quite a lot especially considering you're just starting. Hey, you can always start giving handouts to some charity for poor heresy players (:

 

I'd say that it would be beneficial to try and diversify a bit. Do you really need / want to paint 130 tactical marines? That's an enormous amount. I'd wager the answer is 'no'. I'd definitely try to change like half of them into Veterans / Seekers / Support Squads; some Breachers or Assault squad could also be appreciated from the painting standpoint at least.

 

Besides, the force is extremely infantry-heavy and lacks tanks / Rhinos / flyers / artillery / fast attack /superheavy choices. I'm not hating on it of course, such an army composition is a given thing when you buy mostly BaC and BoP and you may as well decide to just have a huge number of tactical marines to represent, let's say, a whole legion company.

 

But even then, I'd say that would appreciate quite a few of support squads, recon squads etc (or whatever other squad you'd like) and a few vehicles according to the lore at least.

 

It's your choice but while you should maaaybe consider painting some of it before buying more (I know, what an insane notion!), you could really appreciate those new weapon upgrade sets for some fancy weapons, though you must've have amassed quite a few special weapons already from so many squads.

[StraightSilver]

Thanks Lautrec, yeah, I have no idea why I bought 2 x BaC and BoP sets. I think at the time I was planning to paint up one set for the board game and the other for a 30K army.

 

But I also love tanks and I think you might be right, I do not want to paint that many Tac Marines.

 

I think I'll start with a veteran squad for each armour mark, and see how many special and heavy weapons I have to make up support squads.

But I might also shift a few sprues.... lol.

Edited May 9, 2022 by StraightSilver

[Noserenda]

I tend to think in Company formations as the core of an army and even i think thats too much :D 

Things may well shift in the new edition but there really is a bit of a cap on the number of useful tactical marines, about 60, before you have committed too many points and board space into relatively inoffensive units (Though this can vary a fair bit based on some Legions and RoW) Especially if you love tanks, id sell a bunch of the older kits now while they are OOP and some folks are desperate, to fun more tanks when they release :) 

[StraightSilver]

Thanks everyone, it wouldn't do me any harm to shift some of it, that's only a tiny fraction of my pile of shame... Lol.

 

And I can either swap or raise funds for more tanks or specialists units. :)

[Marshal Mittens]

Maybe divide it into two forces and have two big armies to play against one another? Lots of tactical marines on each side seems very lore appropriate.

[StraightSilver]

That's also tempting. Had always wanted to do a Word Bearers army....

 

I'd probably never get around to painting it though.

[derLumpi]

I also have two Prospero boxes and several additional MK 3 squads still on sprue.

 

I will built my UM siege force and probably a smaller Luna Wolves force.

 

Don't sweat the painting part. I have been buildingy the siege force for some time now and none of it is fully painted. Building it is enough for me at the moment.

[Lautrec the Embraced]

A smaller allied force of different legion may come in handy, can use some squads there you wouldn't need in your main army and it's always a relief to paint something with different colours.

[LameBeard]

 

Hi everybody,

 

So a while ago I really wanted to get into Heresy.... I bought all the books, bought 2 x copies of Betrayal at Calth and 2 x copies of Burning of Prospero and some resin FW stuff.

 

So my question is - what to do with what I already have?

 

That's a lot of stuff....

 

I have the books to make up lists but I have played zero games and feel a bit overwhelmed... I should stop buying so much stuff, lol.

 

What a great question! I love this kind of post. Now note this is just a suggestion, but here's what I would do if it were me:

 

1) Immediately sell one copy of BaC and one copy of BoP.

Some people will be interested in the board game, others will see a good heresy bundle, so you should get a decent price, enough to fund ...

2) buy one copy of the new box.

 

3) Split what we have as follows:

 

Army A (Ultramarines?)

20 Beakies - as 2 tactical squads of 10

10 Mark III Veterans, 2 flamers (borrow flamers from BaC

5 Mark III Plasma support (4 or 5 plasma - some borrowed from BaC)

5 Mark III Heavy bolter support (4 or 5 heavy bolter - some borrowed from BaC - tiny bit of conversion required)

10 Cataphractii

Cataphractii Centurion and Beakie Praetor

 

Army B (Word Bearers)

20 Beakies - as 2 tactical squads of 10

10 Mark IV Veterans - with 2 missile launchers

5 Mark IV melta support (4/5 meltas, some borrowed from BoP)

5 Mark IV seekers (as many combi-weapons as available, probably 3)

5 terminators

New dreadnought

Mark IV Consul and Beaky Praetor

 

Add sergeant bling, vexillas etc to all squads to taste, except go easy on beaky squad 2, in case we want to merge later.

 

This gives us a core of each army with 3 troops, 2-3 elites, 1 fast attack or heavy support, 2 HQ. Easily over 1000 points, could be 1500.

 

Ultramarine and Word Bearer could easily be swapped. In the fluff, Ultramarines didn't get much Mark IV, which is why I split it that way, but I can confirm Word Bearers look ace in Mark III, and tempting to give them the big terminator squad to add the Spartan later. On the other hand, what is Roboute going to ride? Obviously the Spartan.

 

 

3) Play zone mortalis with above armies, or look to find opponents who play Centurion

 

We currently have in reserve:

At least 10 Mark IV, 10 Mark III, 5 terminators, a Spartan and the derpy dreadnought.  These are to be used to bulk up the army that feels like it needs them. Squads don't have to be multiples of 5 so we can drip feed in a few, especially we have one or two spare special weapons.  We might merge the 2 10-man beaky squads to one 20-man, and then add another 10-man tactical squad if those 10-man squads are too fragile, or treat ourselves to forge world shields for the ultramarines and make a breacher squad for the 2nd compulsory troops.

 

We also have Gregor, Ahriman (coming back, but still will be worth selling?) and Custodes/Sisters - a possible ally contingent later - plus some other stuff you mentioned that wasn't in the big boxes.

 

 4) Once you are looking to expand out to 3000 points, or maybe even 3500 to include the Primarch, you might find you want more bodies, but you might find you want to try some other rites of war, and the next wave could be a lot of tanks, or jetbikes, or legion-specific troops. Holding a few bodies back also gives you a few options if you go with forgeworld upgrades rather than complete kits.

 

Until this expansion, you have spent nothing except you need to try to find at least one other BaC transfer sheet if you sold one BaC set 'complete', but heck, why not treat yourself to a Forgeworld sheet and really decorate that Spartan. Alternatively, 40k symbols work fine for Ultramarines and interestingly also for Word Bearers with the new chaos sheet. Finally, you probably want to scrounge some power axes for your veterans because only swords were in the plastic kit. 

 

WARNING: this is all based on Heresy 1.0 rules - small risk that legal squads could change. Like in Heavy Support squad you currently get the option to equip sergeant the same or different, will that persist?

[Noserenda]

From memory in the new rules heavy support sergeants certainly have to be equipped the same :( 

[LameBeard]

From memory in the new rules heavy support sergeants certainly have to be equipped the same :(

How annoying. I have 4 heavy bolters. Oh well, I’m definitely buying the new heavy flamers then! Same for tactical support squads? If anything I think that’s where the different sergeant can be useful.

Edited May 10, 2022 by LameBeard

[Slips]

TSS and HSS sergeants have always had to have the same equipment as the rest of their squad.

[LameBeard]

In my copy it states “the squad’s sergeant may alternatively take the following instead of their flamer…”.

 

Similarly, “The squad’s sergeant … may exchange their heavy bolter for a nuncio-vox and chain sword or combat blade…”

 

Pages 43 and 62, red books. I agree it’s a bit ambiguous what happens if you upgrade the squad to (say) volkite but I think it’s reasonable you only put the points on the other 4.

[infyrana]

TSS and HSS sergeants have always had to have the same equipment as the rest of their squad.

Does my memory fail me then, wasn't the first set of rules where the Sgt (at least for the TSS) didn't get a special weapon?  They obviously changed that rule in good time, but the rules in Betrayal on page 205 (quickly checked) read "Flamer (Space Marines only)" and "Combat Blade or chainsword (Sergeant only)".

 

Back to the OP :)  How many is too many?  Depends on how many magnets you like using.  If you wanted, you could grab two boxes of special / heavy weapons and gear up a chunk of your collection with 10-man squads of each type.  Admittedly that could be a waste and cost-ineffective if you prefer magnetising.  You could also convert a squad to Legion Destroyers (with or without a jump pack).  Make up 2x 10-man Veteran specific squads with more added bling / pouches etc.  Then there's the Despoiler / Assault squads if you're good at sourcing all the arms for pistol / chainsword and the jump packs - alternatively you could wait some years for plastic versions or pickup the resin-made.

[Marshal Mittens]

I think the HSS sgt can take a different weapon, like a combibolter or the like?

 

But in topic, it's the Horus Heresy, and nothing fits the theme like huge amounts of marines, imo.

[StraightSilver]

Thanks everybody, definitely some food for thought here.

It does settle that I only need one copy of the new set though. :)

I am going to start putting some lists together with the current books (although appreciate points etc will change) but I want some Rhinos and Tanks in there as well so even though I will no doubt lean towards infantry heavy I don't have to paint up as many as feared. :)

[Lord Krungharr]

You could do an old Dusk Raiders (first name for the Death Guard), just mob the table with bodies marching inexorably to a slow victory?!

 

OR a cool Space Wolves army with all running and charging sweaty-toothed madmen with bunches of frost weapon bits from 40k Wolves kits.

 

OR flamer heavy Salamanders, they love their regular dudes with flamers :D

 

Get some Jump Pack bits maybe, that would give you some Destroyers?  can't remember the unit name with jump packs.

[Slave to Darkness]

Go Word Bearers as a second force, that way you actually have a good legion to play with. ;) 

[StraightSilver]

Yeah, I have decided it will be a second force of Word Bearers. I forgotten I had a ton of Chaos bits and old cultists, and I really like the new cultists/traitor guard minis that were shown off recently and I reckon I could get a Heresy and 40K list out of what's left over. :)

 

So watch this space. :)