BA and 10th

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Not much different. South East United States had some pretty big followings. The Blood Angels placed very well down here. It's been over 12 years now though. I don't even have the USB files from the tournaments and photos etc. From back then to mull over it better.

 

I blame the special characters and lore for getting me into BA. The livery and color just popped.

 

Now playing CBs its just different. Who knows we're in that weird fog of old models vs new and the age is definitely starting to show.

[Sugarlessllama]

I really can't think of anything I really want from a new edition. When it comes to unique units, BA seem to have quite a few. I think what I would like is something to make the units we do have access to moar fighty! Maybe advance and charge, or a flat increase in number of attacks. 

Although I do miss deep striking land raiders.....it would be super rad if I could do that with a repulsor.

[Nova_Dew]

But that's the problem Matt Ward even denotes in the 5th edition codex that there aren't more assault marines than tactical marines, the companies assault squads were just always full. Making ASM troops was a poor game design, and broke the meta at the time. The same thing would happen now. Being able to push end game objectives for ObSec would be unfair compared to the balances we now see.

 

Older Dex's stated that while Codex Compliant on paper, Tactical squads would re-gear as assault squads at any chance they could get (this goes back iirc to 2nd edition Angels of Death), we also shouldn't have 6 tactical squads per company, we should have maybe 4 tops, BA's go Assault, Devastator, Tactical based on how well they can control themselves and not Tactical then specialising like other chapters do, we should be Assault and Dev heavy with a few almost if not Vet level tactical squads per company, maybe 5/3/2, Assault/Dev/Tac or DA's style Company Vets. but hey that would mean the BA's rules matching their fluff and while Ward's Dex can be memed on for it's fluff, he knew the BA's as an army and how they should play by the fluff, flying land raiders aside.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

 

 

But that's the problem Matt Ward even denotes in the 5th edition codex that there aren't more assault marines than tactical marines, the companies assault squads were just always full. Making ASM troops was a poor game design, and broke the meta at the time. The same thing would happen now. Being able to push end game objectives for ObSec would be unfair compared to the balances we now see.

Older Dex's stated that while Codex Compliant on paper, Tactical squads would re-gear as assault squads at any chance they could get (this goes back iirc to 2nd edition Angels of Death), we also shouldn't have 6 tactical squads per company, we should have maybe 4 tops, BA's go Assault, Devastator, Tactical based on how well they can control themselves and not Tactical then specialising like other chapters do, we should be Assault and Dev heavy with a few almost if not Vet level tactical squads per company, maybe 5/3/2, Assault/Dev/Tac or DA's style Company Vets. but hey that would mean the BA's rules matching their fluff and while Ward's Dex can be memed on for it's fluff, he knew the BA's as an army and how they should play by the fluff, flying land raiders aside.

I understand the want for that desire. But it just isn't accurate. Look back over the last few campaign books pre-indomintus. Alphael's 2nd company in Angel's Blade was built as a standard codex compliant company. He had 6 tactical squads at full strength, 2 assault squads at full strength, and 2 devastator squads at half strength.

 

In every. Single. Interation of the make up of the five battle companies each was composed of a codex compliant design. In every codex over the last 15 years the only things that have changed are the names of the captains and until 3 years ago the most recent modifications to Guilliman's book.

 

The whole point is that while they prefer jump packs, they don't just suit up in them all the time for every battle, always.

 

In any case the design for space marines, and blood angels in general needs to be fixed. We don't need a plethora of new models as mich as more fluid rules and reworked stratagems and secondaries.

[Cleon]

 

But that's the problem Matt Ward even denotes in the 5th edition codex that there aren't more assault marines than tactical marines, the companies assault squads were just always full. Making ASM troops was a poor game design, and broke the meta at the time. The same thing would happen now. Being able to push end game objectives for ObSec would be unfair compared to the balances we now see.

 

Older Dex's stated that while Codex Compliant on paper, Tactical squads would re-gear as assault squads at any chance they could get (this goes back iirc to 2nd edition Angels of Death), we also shouldn't have 6 tactical squads per company, we should have maybe 4 tops, BA's go Assault, Devastator, Tactical based on how well they can control themselves and not Tactical then specialising like other chapters do, we should be Assault and Dev heavy with a few almost if not Vet level tactical squads per company, maybe 5/3/2, Assault/Dev/Tac or DA's style Company Vets. but hey that would mean the BA's rules matching their fluff and while Ward's Dex can be memed on for it's fluff, he knew the BA's as an army and how they should play by the fluff, flying land raiders aside.

 

 

Apologies to be pedantic, but unless the lore has change in the recent editions, Codex Marines were always Dev/Assault/Tac, nd the BA Assault/Dev/Tac.

 

Both agree that the tactical squad is the ultimate in flexibility and needs the most experience for the marines to be efective, but the standard approach is to let them experience the flow of battle as fire support first as it's easier for the Sgts to co-ordinate the less experienced marines, whereas BA as you say let the marines have their head as Assault troops first. A tac squad which can perform either role needs the marines to be proficient in both.

[Leonaides]

Going back even further, they experienced it all as scouts and were then further specialised depending on their individual skills into either the 9th company (devs) or 8th company (assault) or 6th/7th (tactical). They would of course cross-train extensively, and as far as tt stats go, they'd be all equivalent, but the ba 8th company was one of the premier assault units in the imperium, not a bunch of unruly fresh marines.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I really didn't mean for this to be derailed. I just adamantly disagree with giving fly boys ObSec.

 

And while I think we are more than just jumpy dudes, I do agree that jump packs are a mainstay in the army. Just like Ravenguard and nightlords who both also love jump packs, we just do it better.

[Bonzi]

Here's the trick, you can have obsec jump pack Assault Marines now using a character with rights of war and you still don't see them used because honestly, other units do it better and obsec won't really change that. I would say units like Reivers and JP Assault Marines need different rules that highlight their roll as attacking and disruption units.

 

ASM could get a charge or attack bonus of some kind vs units on objectives (similar to Eldar Windriders but melee focused). Reivers should shut off enemy obsec or prevent actions from being started nearby.

 

Changes like these need to be paired with an increased utility of Obsec. Obsec units should get bonuses to performing actions and/or be able to fortify an objective or make it sticky. There are tons of ways they can make obsec units better and more desirable without endlessly amping their leathality as is the current course.

[JeffJedi]

New Dante model

Bat Swarms

Dreadnought Brother-Captain Tycho

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

New Dante model

Bat Swarms

Dreadnought Brother-Captain Tycho

you mean you want the gold-nought?

[Blindhamster]

Hopes and desires:

- new Dante, crossed rubicon along with sanguinary guard that are a MIX of primaris and firstborn, there’s only 30, we know the last survivor from baal became the new ancient.

- an upgrade sprue like BT got, primaris inferno pistol bit with our intercessors getting access, maybe an encarmine blade bit as an option for characters, some more BA style heads, representation of relics etc

- primaris tacticus jump troops in core marine dex and us getting the option to make them death company

[Karhedron]

Upgrade the Sanguinor both in terms of model and rules. This guy is a warp entity and should hit at least as hard as a Daemon Prince. I would like to see a new model something along the lines of the Celestant Prime from AoS.

 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Upgrade the Sanguinor both in terms of model and rules. This guy is a warp entity and should hit at least as hard as a Daemon Prince. I would like to see a new model something along the lines of the Celestant Prime from AoS.

 

That is one of my favorite models I've ever painted. If we could get a model that looks that good and rivals a primarch I would be very okay with it.

[Loishy]

At first when I saw the topic title I thought it was about the Blood Angels 10th company. What is its organization, the type of squad etc…

 

For the next edition, I hope there will be less stratagem and less layer of special rules. I prefer a clean game. With the accumulation of 2 chapter tactics rules, Warlord traits, relics, doctrine, special doctrine, units specials rules and stratagems, I totally gave up 9th.

 

That is more a generic will for all 40k Codex. Specifically for the Blood Angels I want a better equilibrium between all codex entries, and a real possibility to build a roster with a good mix of dakka and melee. For example, a list with a OK gun line and a small/medium melee force for disrupt the enemy gun line or intercept a portion of enemy melee units.

 

I would also like to see a rework of the Lucifer engine. Maybe as an option for the vehicles. And of course a useful Baal predator and Land raiders. To recapture one of the old Blood Angels combat tactics, the mechanized assault.

 

I almost done buying my Bloods Angels collection, so I do not particularly want a new type unit. Eventually a new unit in Phobos armor for my 10th company, or a new unit of veterans for the last squad of my 1st company. I do not like the Blade Guards and the only other primaris option are the veteran intercessors. Moreover, I do not have good inspirations for build these.

I am not a big fan of special character, so I really don’t care about what they do with them.

[Vermintide]

I think the whole army should get advance and charge, or fall back and charge, something like that. I dunno, feels like our current CT is kinda underwhelming for what the army is supposed to feel like. I don't mean in terms of raw gameplay strength, but in terms of the BA being very, very, angry. That just doesn't feel represented right now. In a more general sense I'd hope to see doctrines and stratagem bloat considerably scaled back and reworked; I feel more of that stuff should just be built into the army's core rules or unit abilities, rather than being conditional and situational bonuses.

 

In general strip back the layers of special rules, but make the base level rules more helpful and applicable to what the army is meant to be good at.

 

Units? First of all, Death Company should be immune to all morale (I mean, come on, seriously) and need something better than a 6+++. Should be at least a 5+++. They just need a little extra something. I think maybe give them a special interaction with chaplains, as a bonus for running them fluffy. Our vehicles could do with some love too; just give them bonus movement from Lucifer pattern engines for free. Red ones go faster after all. Lots of our characters need work, but I'm assuming they'll eventually get it crossing the Rubicon, or else they'll just quietly shuffle off to Legends. Psychic powers are very underwhelming in the current book- I feel like we get more use out of the vanilla psychic discipline than our own right now... Stuff like Sanguard are doing just fine, they're already the meta choice. I'd just maybe like to see them get an extra wound/attack (and corresponding point increase), to bring them in line with Primaris vets, and make them more representative of the super-elite the lore paints them as.

 

Sanguard are the only kit I'm eager to see a proper Primaris update for, although I would prefer if it's a straight like for like upscale. As for other new models... Ehh, I don't think we desperately need them. Just characters and the SG. If they give Primaris DC or Assault Intercessors the option of jump packs, I'd probably settle for an upgrade sprue with a few jump packs and a couple extra melee weapons.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I think the whole army should get advance and charge, or fall back and charge, something like that. I dunno, feels like our current CT is kinda underwhelming for what the army is supposed to feel like. I don't mean in terms of raw gameplay strength, but in terms of the BA being very, very, angry. That just doesn't feel represented right now. In a more general sense I'd hope to see doctrines and stratagem bloat considerably scaled back and reworked; I feel more of that stuff should just be built into the army's core rules or unit abilities, rather than being conditional and situational bonuses.

 

In general strip back the layers of special rules, but make the base level rules more helpful and applicable to what the army is meant to be good at.

 

Units? First of all, Death Company should be immune to all morale (I mean, come on, seriously) and need something better than a 6+++. Should be at least a 5+++. They just need a little extra something. I think maybe give them a special interaction with chaplains, as a bonus for running them fluffy. Our vehicles could do with some love too; just give them bonus movement from Lucifer pattern engines for free. Red ones go faster after all. Lots of our characters need work, but I'm assuming they'll eventually get it crossing the Rubicon, or else they'll just quietly shuffle off to Legends. Psychic powers are very underwhelming in the current book- I feel like we get more use out of the vanilla psychic discipline than our own right now... Stuff like Sanguard are doing just fine, they're already the meta choice. I'd just maybe like to see them get an extra wound/attack (and corresponding point increase), to bring them in line with Primaris vets, and make them more representative of the super-elite the lore paints them as.

 

Sanguard are the only kit I'm eager to see a proper Primaris update for, although I would prefer if it's a straight like for like upscale. As for other new models... Ehh, I don't think we desperately need them. Just characters and the SG. If they give Primaris DC or Assault Intercessors the option of jump packs, I'd probably settle for an upgrade sprue with a few jump packs and a couple extra melee weapons.

How about chaplains get a DC specific litany that gives them fight first and at least one extra attack, on a 6” range.

 

I’d like SG to get a simple upscale if they get primarized, but based on their record, I don’t see that happening. They’ll probably be stuck with angelus boltguns with an extra AP, and fancy power swords S +2 AP -2 D2 (maybe 3?)

Edited May 30, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Blindhamster]

Personally I’d like sanguinary guard to be good at the whole guarding but.

[Karhedron]

Units? First of all, Death Company should be immune to all morale (I mean, come on, seriously).

This, so much this! These guys are looking for a herioic death in battle. They should be throwing themselves towards terrifying monsters and unwinable fights!

[Lathspell]

I would love death company to be in assault doctrine all the time (devastator doctrine for dc, really?), fnp 5+, Inmune to morale (they are Sanguinius after all), being unable to perform actions or claim objectives, unless lead by a chaplain, and maybe unleash rage built in (they have unleashed the whole rage after all), that would make them more on par with what they are supposed to be.

 

A rework on the Sanguinor, he is able to piledrive Bloodthirsters after all. Now he just looks as a cool captain with a special relic.

 

Dante with rules reflecting his tactical acumen, he has more commanding experience than Marneus Calgar and Guilliman combined, and that should be reflected somehow, come on, he can counter time-warping strategies!

 

And the last thing, as many others have said, some way to advance and charge, it's our main theme after all.