New Codex, New Oaths and New Hope

[chapter master 454]

Alright, want to see if something tracks here. Maybe not the most over the top but decided to see how far I could take 1 knight in terms of fighting power and you can get a knight with 7 attacks that may have good odds of clearing the field in 1 bound.

 

Freeblade Army of Renown

 

you have your Gallant as a High-Monarch and an Errant as a Princeps. You make the Gallant your warlord, give him double warlord traits of Echo's from the Past (picking Griffith) and Knight Seneschal. His base tradition is the one that lets him count as +2 Honour. You have a third Questor Imperialis knight with the banner and trait to have +2 honour by default, picking Refuse no Tyrants (seems best fit for this build). You give the Gallant whatever relics you like, ultimately not mattering too much but you can just go ham and have the uber chainsword on him and sanctuary though I am sure we can get fightier.

 

You at game start give the Gallant the Advance Charge benefit from the Errant and now you have:

a knight, that on the charge, has 7 attacks. Can Advance and charge and has inherit ability to not just re-roll advances and charges but can also just look at a die roll and just say "make it a 6" meaning it will most certainly be crossing 18" of the board without question. You also can re-roll your charge as well which further helps and due to the benefits of freeblade, you can ignore modifiers your opponent attempts to stop you with.

I think I have a TON of redundant components here but I thought I would look around in other areas of the codex and I do think we have some serious chopping power.

To note, that does mean we could have up to 28 attacks in one phase. There you go, I got to your numbers legit :D

[Karhedron]

To note, that does mean we could have up to 28 attacks in one phase. There you go, I got to your numbers legit

Or 35 if you use the aforementioned Chainsweep stratagem.

[sairence]

Cheers guys. Just finished my first game with the new rules and it was seriously fun. Absolutely destroyed my opponent's Admech but we had a good laugh throughout.

 

Think we were both surprised by how fast they were in his face. Was running House Terryn with an Herald Errant, so had 2 advance and charge Warglaives with 4++ in his face turn 1, together with a revered knight gallant as Master of Justice with Sanctuary. So fight first, hits of 1-3 fail in melee and 4++ in melee...he was just a beast.

 

Also surprised that I hit virtuous pretty much straight away at the end of the first battleround.

 

The Terryn relic RFBC was also really nice on my Paladin. D6+6 shots and S9 basically compensated for all its weaknesses, making it a really reliable damage dealer.

Edited May 18, 2022 by sairence

[Karhedron]

The Terryn relic RFBC was also really nice on my Paladin. D6+6 shots and S9 basically compensated for all its weaknesses, making it a really reliable damage dealer.

Glad I painted mine as Terryn then.

[sairence]

Very sexy! I tend to be easy and just paint mine what I feel like. Two of my three big guys I got second hand from a guy who is a much better painter than me, so I'm not changing anything about them. Makes for a bit more of a hodge podge look. Edited May 18, 2022 by sairence

[Emperor Ming]

Sounds like a gallant is a good pick then

 

I was thinking paladin, paladin, errant as the 3 questoris for my 2k

 

But I suppose: paladin, errant, gallant is better?

 

Question for knight players: are any of the upgrades worth it? like the missile pods or auto cannons, of even the meltaguns here and there

 

Thx for tips

[chapter master 454]

So, as it stands I would encourage you to go with what you like. In relation to the weapon loadout, don't sweat the details too much as from the looks of it our main melee armaments are now just side-grades of each other instead one being pointed more than the other (for some reason). For Carapace weapons, those are actually fairly easy to not need to glue in place and I would recommend not gluing them on: that connection point is hilariously flimsy. Ether magnetise the joining point or do as I do and just let the little peg that could do its job.

In terms of tabletop currently, I would wager you will find yourself always taking some carapace weapons...not because they are auto-includes but because you have the points. Knights are hard pressed to use their points up effectively often left with groups of 100 points left easy, thus taking extra carapace weapons is fairly common: just as "pack filler".

 

Of the 3, Stormspear is certainly the most pricy but as mentioned, when you are sitting with most knight lists hanging with 100 points spare, 40 points really isn't that much of an issue really. However this thing spits out a spread of krak rockets and the relic upgrade got a fairly good however...as I type this I remember ignore LoS is now nerfed so...take that with a pitch of salt.

The Ironstorm is certainly a decent take when all you want to do is just dump shots across the board at random targets over the course of game. However, now being the same as the Icarus...I honestly don't feel like it has much use now (and again, ignore LoS being nerfed sucks).

 

In regards to the defensive guns of our knights, the humble and Stubber and Meltagun, these weapons are reliable chip damage on the regular and helpful chaff clearing aids. While certainly not game-winners, leaving most knights with their respective Stubber isn't a bad thing however if you feel for some reason (how?) that you lack anti-tank then some extra meltaguns on knights that intend on being closer to the enemy isn't bad. Personally, I did go with a Meltagun on my Gallant as it felt right and those knights aren't here for shooting, they are here for chopping and punching.

 

Again though, you will find that you will have a fairly sizable amount of points just lying around so don't feel like you have to take the cheap options or what not. Really, the Kings share is already baked into which knight you take as it stands.

 

Also, Paladin, Errant and Gallant as your first knights is fairly decent. As with the new codex, going Mechanicus or Imperialis is equally valid with such knights.

Just remember: collect the ones you want to collect and think are cool! Knights are an army more than any other (only matched by their chaos counter-part) that is central about each knight being something you love. Something you can look at with pride and put on display. Each one is a unique model so don't feel ANY pressure about which knights you want to get. Its a game, having fun is the most important part.

And roleplaying a little with how you build your army with knights can be part of that fun ;)

[Karhedron]

I agree. Carapace weapons are a good way to use up spare points and they can contribute some damage.

 

I don't think the difference between Stubbers and Melta guns matters too much overall. My Helverins get Stubbers as I know I want them to stand back while my Warglaives get Meltaguns as they want to get up close. For the Questoris, take whichever you like.

 

There are some edge uses for Stubbers such as the Sacristan WLT which provides MWs on a 6 to Wound in which case you want high ROF weapons but overall I don't think it matters too much.

[chapter master 454]

So just wondering, would the Taranis WLT count for triggering abilities? You do change the result to a 6 and with how other codices handle this sort of ability it generally is given the ok for being able to be treated as "unmodified".

If it does work, then I think I have a fairly ok use for 4CP on a Castellan or Valiant. Just hit anything with a Volcano Lance or the Thundercoil and then use the trait to Auto-6 the result while under the Calculated Targeting Strat. A Lance has an average rate of 11-12 wounds and being able to just say "Yep, hold 11 mortal wounds with that" could be extremely powerful unit buster, especially units that like to lean on things like trans-human and invulnerable saves. This just says "No, hold these mortals". That isn't also accounting for any other guns that manage to trigger this stratagem from the Castellan which may be able to also trigger a couple of times on a Cawl's Wrath (even just one trigger handing out 3 mortals would be fairly painful).

 

Expensive, but a list I am theory crafting does back this with a Preceptor and 6 Armigers (4 Warglaives and 2 Helverins).

However, if this doesn't work then I will just carry on with just having Ion Bulwark as a solo act on the castellan.

[DeStinyFiSh]

So just wondering, would the Taranis WLT count for triggering abilities? You do change the result to a 6 and with how other codices handle this sort of ability it generally is given the ok for being able to be treated as "unmodified".

If it does work, then I think I have a fairly ok use for 4CP on a Castellan or Valiant. Just hit anything with a Volcano Lance or the Thundercoil and then use the trait to Auto-6 the result while under the Calculated Targeting Strat. A Lance has an average rate of 11-12 wounds and being able to just say "Yep, hold 11 mortal wounds with that" could be extremely powerful unit buster, especially units that like to lean on things like trans-human and invulnerable saves. This just says "No, hold these mortals". That isn't also accounting for any other guns that manage to trigger this stratagem from the Castellan which may be able to also trigger a couple of times on a Cawl's Wrath (even just one trigger handing out 3 mortals would be fairly painful).

 

Expensive, but a list I am theory crafting does back this with a Preceptor and 6 Armigers (4 Warglaives and 2 Helverins).

However, if this doesn't work then I will just carry on with just having Ion Bulwark as a solo act on the castellan.

 

That is how I have seen it being played in a battle report, can't find anything wrong here.

[Karhedron]

When you upgrade 1 Knight to be a Princeps (I think the Paladin works best here) and hand out the Bondsman ability to a Crusader while there is a Master Tactician on the field, you can activate Calculated Targeting on the Crusader for free, which saves you 3 CP.

 

Nice combo!

 

I think I will do the math later and see how much damage a Crusader will do on average 

 

EDIT: Done the math!

Crusader with RFBC and Ironstorm does an average of 13,7 mortals with the Paladin Bondsman ability and Calculated Targeting.

With Thermal within half range and Stormspear he does 15,6 mortals on average!

EDIT EDIT: Forgotten that you can also swap the Stubber to a Melter, so we are at 16 mortals on average when in half Melter range 

  

Add Blessed by the Scristans for another 6 mortals and have fun 

Just another thought on this one, In the unlikely event that this metric ton of MWs is not killy enough, If you are running House Vulker, you can add in Saturation Bombardment for 2CPs to give you exploding 6s to Hit.

[chapter master 454]

Alright, been doing some theory crafting and mental checking. First things first:

Dear god GW really hate Dominus knights now, like dear lord. If they put the amount of effort into making the rules a little more inclusive of fringe abilities as they did to make sure Dominus have near nothing, the Codex would be tighter than the Emperor is immune to chaos! They have access to only 1 relic, 1 for Mechanicus and 1 for Imperialis (the signature Cawl's Wrath and Traitor's Pyre respectively) as any other relic ether can't apply to them due to a lack of appropriate weapon or they are singled out as the only ones who can't take it (as the relic states only Questor Class or Armiger Class).

Follow that with the fact that if you give a Dominus an Exalted Court ability they just straight up DON'T get to use the Noble Exemplar part at all as it is stated that if the model with the title lacks a bondsman ability you just straight don't get it. Like...GW really hate Dominus and it is ironic to think as instead of pushing them as being part of an army, they push them being better as freeblade additions for other armies...which is where they were a problem!

 

So naturally, these handicapped war machines are my first stop to see what I can work out of them. As mentioned, one of the main things you can do it opt for the "Hyper Death Beam"/"FINAL FLASH"/"Imma Firing MA LASER BWAA" with going for a Taranis Castellan and making use of the Taranis WLT + Calculated Targeting and make your opponent hold 9-14 mortal wounds on a target. Pretty sure even Morty is going to be feeling that one.

This is expensive as it is 4CP by default, but considering this can be used not just for big targets and even hard to hurt squads like Scarab Occult Terminators or similar things to delete outright 3 of them with semi-decent odds at a 4th. This doesn't account for the fact you do get to have this effect possibly activate on other attacks as well, and if you are disgusting with luck, another volcano lance trigger.

 

I however wanted to see what else there was to offer in the codex and decided to shop around in other parts of the codex. I remembered then, Martial Traditions aren't some unique list of abilities for freeblades...these are our Custom household Traits we can make use of. These traits are actually able to be applied army wide if you opt out of a standard household. This detail sparked a renewed interest in these as I will mention there is one rather nice overlap: Machine Focus and Chivaric Code: Lay Low the Tyrants. While only for shooting this gives you, per model: 1 Re-roll to Hit OR wound AND 1 Re-roll to Wound OR Damage. That is fairly considerable since I notice we are all uniformly drawn to Paladins for that nice Re-roll boost. Another one is Blessed Arms which...when applied army wide is a lot better.

My focus was mainly on making a 9 armiger + Valiant list, which is another comedy: Dominus will likely only appear in Armiger Spam lists if at all.

At first, I was thinking Blessed Arms for everyone, since across 9 Armigers that gives them a ton more shots with Stubber at AP1 however...on review I believe I may consider the idea of going for Machine Focus for all and using Master Tactician to get Blessed Arms for the Valiant. Getting every Armiger to have a bunch of re-rolls open to them is quite potent, remembering that if I don't need it for hitting, I could have up to 2 re-rolls for wounding for those 2 hits (and further to that, another go at damage possibly).

The Valiant however I think is kind of hilarious when you start talking about a 24" range Congratulation Cannon and 24" Thundercoil Harpoon, especially when this Knight also has those re-roll options open as well.

 

Seeing strengths...seeing flaws but generally starting to find some dirt with this codex I think.

[Captain Caine 24th]

Frater, this is some really good stuff here.

 

I was initially not thrilled by the crusader, but it the exalted court Princeps applying the bondsman ability to a questoris class, stacked with mortal wound damage from Calculated Targeting is really interesting. Mortal wounds are just so crucial, especially with AoC (e.g. deathwing) making tough infantry really tough to shift. Not to mention, mortal wounds spill over - to some extent you mitigate the problem of high damage weapons being wasted or bouncing off. 

 

Just thinking out loud here, I'm really liking Terryn and Griffith. I like Terryn (and am painted that way), but I concede Griffith might be better.

• So, the gallant can get 28" minimum charge (master of joust adv. & charge + extra WLT trait strat + Landstrider + Questor Imperialis Vow of honor + Heart of Iron)?? Even the Terryn Gallant can reach out a respectable distance T1 though, and either house can get the armigers to advance and charge via bondsman. But there I think i like having the Terryn house to get the other charge buffs for all models, not just the warlord.
• I do worry about an FAQ on the first turn charges available here. Based on experience, this will happen just as I get my 4th Armiger painted.
• Consider a hypothetical - I typically play IG/AM. The footprint of the army is so large it almost necessarily places units up to the front of the deployment zone. Launching two helverins and a buffed/stacked warlord gallant would be way too much to handle. I can see some mitigation by infantry using ruins or terrain to avoid knights, or by simple terrain placement to block knights. So, there may be some issue of not getting the T1 charge if you've got to run around some buildings. Using infiltrating units to slow movement can be a mixed bag too - if done wrong the knight will charge and kill a unit and consolidate into another unit. 
• Consolidation bonuses. Again against a horde-type army, everything is tightly packed. That Linebreaker (1CP) for a 6 or 7" consolidate is filthy. The knight base size is too big to maneuver sometimes, but this will catch the average player totally off guard. Even if you know about it, I'm not sure there's much to be done about it unless you deploy super conservatively (which probably puts you out of aura and buff ranges, or puts far too much in reserves). Well, I suppose some armies have fall back and shoot rules to keep in mind (big pre-game checklist question there!). 

Amusingly the decision flow chart for me here is really only one question: did I get first turn? If YES, Charge. If NO, Charge. Now there is nuance here, as the game has objectives and immediate pressure causes armies to fight in ways they really don't want to fight. But, I don't want to be a one-trick army. I do worry about not going first or being faced with an essentially null deploy - no real targets. So, how much is too much for defensive benefits? 

• I'm worried about Meltafest 2022 - e.g. space marine eradicators & Sisters Retributors. 
• I've been thinking about exalted court Monarchsward, but is a bodyguard rule still good with faqs?
• Is it worth exploring some damage mitigation (like the 1-3 wound roll fails) e.g. 'strike and shield' martial tradition; Vulker's Adamantine Knight warlord trait; or exalted court Gatekeeper?
• Martial Prowess 1CP (add 1 to armor save)
• Go Questor mechanicus? - for the extra wounds or strat to fire at full bracket; House Taranis for some ignore wounds and getting back up after death. I suspect Mechanicus has the better adaptive ability overall. 

[sairence]

I'm basically running this list on Sunday. Have a Herald Errant, to launch 2 Warglaives forward turn 1 with advance & charge on 3d6 from Terryn and a 4++, with a Gallant sporting Sanctuary, Strike & Shield and fight first from Revered Knight as wave 1.5. Then followed up by another Warglaive, the Errant who has an extra attack from Knight Seneschal and the Helm of the Nameless Warrior, to stack up the MWs in CC. With the Terryn strat and chainsweep he gets up to 6x4 sweep attacks. Got the Refuse vow for +1 to hit in the first round of combat too. Basically maximum pressure that I figure will simple overwhelm most opponents. Backed up a Paladin sporting Thunder of Voltoris, cause that relic BC basically addresses almost all weaknesses of the RFBC.

 

There'll be some armies that simpy won't care though, because they have the speed themselves to not present any decent targets turn 1 and the tools to dismantle the push despite all the defensive buffs. Will see how it handles itself on Sunday, should be lots of fun to play regardless.

Edited May 25, 2022 by sairence