Unification Wars-Early Crusade timeline

[Hrvat]

I have sort of stopped following Horus Heresy with the Outcast Dead more than a decade ago and with the 2nd edition of the game about to drop I decided to catch up but encountered some puzzling things. I would appreciate if anyone could help me clear things up. 

 

- Unification Wars are claimed to have ended at the battle of Ararat. 

 

- Following the battle of Ararat Space Marines of the first legion have their first action during the attempted arrest of Valdor

 

- All over the place various legions are mentioned to have taken part in the Unification Wars

 

- For years it was said creation of Space Marines was done from the leftover of the Primarch project after the scattering

 

- Now there are mentions of Space Marines operating before the scattering

 

- Horus in the old background was alone with the Emperor for 3 decades (info repeated yesterday in the WHC article which inspired this topic), in the newer materials at least 4 other Primarch were found within the first 3 decades of the Great Crusade

 

 

Cheers 

Hrvat

[WrathOfTheLion]

In book 9, it's mentioned that there's some degree of 'proto-Astartes' of the 1st Legion operating, that weren't quite finalized Astartes. Could be what they're mentioning there as far as the scattering part.

 

The first two points, I'm not sure as to what's the completely correct statement, but the First Legion was well operating for centuries during the Unification Wars, so both of those statements cannot be correct. We know that they were operating well before the purge of the Thunder Warriors, so the statement that it's their first combat is definitely false.

[sarabando]

right at the end of the war you had the assault on the tempest galleries where the salamanders proto legion led a mass assault drill attack on a gigantic underground power station as part of the final assault on the Ethnarc of the caucasus wastes. They deployed the entire legions 20k soldiers in what was considered to be a suicide mission.  This is where they wore the funky yellow and black camo scheme first. 

[Cactus]

As far as I can tell that portion of the timeline is a contradictory mess and at least some that might be intentional. I think we can be confident that there was some overlap between the Thunder Warriors and the Astartes (but the latter may have been prototypes and not the final version that fought in the Great Crusade) and it's unclear how advanced the Legiones Astartes project was at the time of the scattering. As for the rest, pick and choose your headcanon from the available options.

[Pacific81]

My understanding, based on my own scatter-brained memory and from bits I have picked up over the years:

- Emperor sets out to conquer Terra using the Thunder Warriors. At some point during this he starts working on the Primarch and Space Marine project. 

- During incubation of the Primarchs they get scattered around the galaxy by the Chaos Gods.

- He still has the genetic templates and so starts to create/grow the first Space Marines. We know that a large portion of the Legions had their first 'draft' of Terrans, so assume there is some sort of wholesale recruitment drive of youth to become the first Legions?

- Question: Were the early Astartes used to wipe out the Thunder Warriors after Terra is conquered, or some other biological means? (did they have a biological 'timer' ala the Blade Runner replicants, or some other method/biological warfare was used?) I assume it must have taken some time to create the first generation of Marines (which were in essence a 'mk2' of the genetic super warriors, after the Thunder Warriors) and them being used to engage in warfare against Terra's conquerors always seemed a bit silly to me. Perhaps they were short-lived (designed that way) and just died out? As we could be dealing with decades of time. 

- Emperor sets on the pacification of the Solar System using the first Marines - we know this from the Horus Heresy artbooks amongst other sources. (Weren't the Luna Wolves thus named because they were involved in the subjugation of the Moon, from the... Clangers I assume?)

 

Sorry this probably isn't very much help!

Can I ask are you planning some sort of project from around this period Hrvat? 

[sarabando]

My understanding, based on my own scatter-brained memory and from bits I have picked up over the years:

- Emperor sets out to conquer Terra using the Thunder Warriors. At some point during this he starts working on the Primarch and Space Marine project. 

- During incubation of the Primarchs they get scattered around the galaxy by the Chaos Gods.

- He still has the genetic templates and so starts to create/grow the first Space Marines. We know that a large portion of the Legions had their first 'draft' of Terrans, so assume there is some sort of wholesale recruitment drive of youth to become the first Legions?

- Question: Were the early Astartes used to wipe out the Thunder Warriors after Terra is conquered, or some other biological means? (did they have a biological 'timer' ala the Blade Runner replicants, or some other method/biological warfare was used?) I assume it must have taken some time to create the first generation of Marines (which were in essence a 'mk2' of the genetic super warriors, after the Thunder Warriors) and them being used to engage in warfare against Terra's conquerors always seemed a bit silly to me. Perhaps they were short-lived (designed that way) and just died out? As we could be dealing with decades of time. 

- Emperor sets on the pacification of the Solar System using the first Marines - we know this from the Horus Heresy artbooks amongst other sources. (Weren't the Luna Wolves thus named because they were involved in the subjugation of the Moon, from the... Clangers I assume?)

 

Sorry this probably isn't very much help!

Can I ask are you planning some sort of project from around this period Hrvat? 

The TW were wiped out by a mixed force of the 1st legion and the custodes. 

The 16th was at Luna as were the XIIIth they fought against a culture of genetic engineers who ruled the moon. Their defeat allowed the big E to use their skills and facilities to smooth out some wrinkles in the early proto legions. 

[Dark Legionnare]

 

The TW were wiped out by a mixed force of the 1st legion and the custodes. 

The 16th was at Luna as were the XIIIth they fought against a culture of genetic engineers who ruled the moon. Their defeat allowed the big E to use their skills and facilities to smooth out some wrinkles in the early proto legions. 

And to use the "looms" to REALLY crank up production of seed & astartes numbers overall.

[Arkhanist]

My understanding, based on my own scatter-brained memory and from bits I have picked up over the years:

- Emperor sets out to conquer Terra using the Thunder Warriors. At some point during this he starts working on the Primarch and Space Marine project. 

- During incubation of the Primarchs they get scattered around the galaxy by the Chaos Gods.

- He still has the genetic templates and so starts to create/grow the first Space Marines. We know that a large portion of the Legions had their first 'draft' of Terrans, so assume there is some sort of wholesale recruitment drive of youth to become the first Legions?

- Question: Were the early Astartes used to wipe out the Thunder Warriors after Terra is conquered, or some other biological means? (did they have a biological 'timer' ala the Blade Runner replicants, or some other method/biological warfare was used?) I assume it must have taken some time to create the first generation of Marines (which were in essence a 'mk2' of the genetic super warriors, after the Thunder Warriors) and them being used to engage in warfare against Terra's conquerors always seemed a bit silly to me. Perhaps they were short-lived (designed that way) and just died out? As we could be dealing with decades of time. 

- Emperor sets on the pacification of the Solar System using the first Marines - we know this from the Horus Heresy artbooks amongst other sources. (Weren't the Luna Wolves thus named because they were involved in the subjugation of the Moon, from the... Clangers I assume?)

 

Sorry this probably isn't very much help!

Can I ask are you planning some sort of project from around this period Hrvat? 

 

The 'official' story is that the Thunder Warriors all conveniently died at the final unification battle of Mount Ararat, and the Astartes were revealed to replace them afterwards. In truth, the Primarchs and Astartes development definitely started much earlier, during the Unification Wars on Terra, and they were always intended to be the much more numerous replacement for the Thunder Warriors. After Mount Ararat, with heavy losses, surviving Thunder Warriors were then betrayed and killed by other Imperial forces (believed to be the Custodes), though they didn't get them all, and it was all expunged from the official records.

 

The Thunder Warriors were designed using relatively primitive genetic techniques, and were starting to suffer physical deterioration, though they were still extremely strong and tough. They were also hyper-violent, and the Emperor wanted to replace them with more controllable, more advanced and genetically stable Astartes. Plus Thunder Warriors (in unsealed mark 1 power armour) weren't void fighters, which would be needed for taking on the rest of the Sol system and beyond.

 

Early in the Great Crusade, post-Unification, the World Eaters were dispatched to quell the Cerberus Insurrection on an asteroid prison colony, where some remaining Thunder Warriors were hiding; the entire prison was wiped out, though the Thunder Warriors killed 4-5 their number of World Eaters in the process.

 

The Great Crusade and Unification Wars also overlapped. Early-generation Legionnaires from the VIIth, XIIIth and XVIth Legions were sent to pacify Luna while the Unification Wars on terra were still ongoing - in what is supposedly the first major off-world action of the Great Crusade, but no Thunder Warriors involved - and the gene-wrights knowledge was used to enhance the Astartes project. And the XVIth Legion got their name - the Luna Wolves. 

 

Of course, the Emperor also had plenty of non-genetically enhanced soldiers too, so it wasn't a straight transition from Thunder Warriors to Astartes as his only armies - but they did replace them as his shock troops and primary forces for the Great Crusade beyond Terra.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Arkhanist

[jaxom]

 

- Unification Wars are claimed to have ended at the battle of Ararat. 

 

 

- All over the place various legions are mentioned to have taken part in the Unification Wars

 

The Imperium was founded, and the first phase of the Unification Wars completed, with the Battle of Ararat. The Emperor had conquered enough territory to be a legitimate power, set up a government, and supply the war machine he needed to actually conquer the planet. Details are sketchy, but it seems like the nascent state roughly included east Asia to the Ural mountains. What was now eastern Europe wasn't incorporated until later, after the second legiones astartes had their alpha intake, and the flesh tithe of the newly conquered regions went to the third legiones astartes alpha intake. The peace deal with Albia (modern western France and UK) occurred around the same time as the tenth legiones astartes alpha intake. The Battle of Roma, presumably occuring in the modern Italian penninsula was the seventh legiones astartes first major battle honor. 

 

 

- Following the battle of Ararat Space Marines of the first legion have their first action during the attempted arrest of Valdor

 

Correct. The first legiones astartes were deployed to stop an attempted extralegal arrest backed up by a possibly-beyond-actual-control army of Thunder Warriors and mercenaries. The Custodes were busy dealing with Astarte's sabotage of the legiones astartes gene-seed vaults.

 

 

- For years it was said creation of Space Marines was done from the leftover of the Primarch project after the scattering

 

- Now there are mentions of Space Marines operating before the scattering

 

There are some fuzzy details here. According to many texts the legiones astartes were always planned as the armies to be led by the primarchs. The fuzzy part is when their development started. Some texts state gene-seed research and development occurred in conjunction with the primarch project while others that it was only getting started once all the primarchs were incubating. Valdor shows that ninth legion gene-seed was still being worked on while the first legion alpha intake was active. It is thus possible that singular space marine prototypes were developed without primarch input (similar to the Grey Knights) or with the first primarch's genetic material while the later primarchs were being developed.

 

 

- Horus in the old background was alone with the Emperor for 3 decades (info repeated yesterday in the WHC article which inspired this topic), in the newer materials at least 4 other Primarch were found within the first 3 decades of the Great Crusade

 

Yes, Wolfspear is (I think) purposefully vague, but repeatedly uses "years" to describe the time where Horus was the only primarch. Malevolence's time line has the Lion (11th primarch found as of Laurie Goulding leaving GW) at Sarosh 45 years after the Sol system is conquered and the 17th legion "newly reunited" with Lorgar (14th primarch found as of Laurie Goulding leaving GW) 10 years after Sarosh.

 

The list the Goulding confirmed was:

1. Horus
2. Russ
3. --
4. Ferrus
5. Fulgrim
6. Vulkan
7. Dorn
8. Guilliman
9. Magnus
10. Sanguinius
11. The Lion
12. Perturabo
13. Mortarion
14. Lorgar
15. The Khan
16. Curze
17. Angron
18. Corax
19. --
20. Alpharius/Omegon

The Alpharius primarch novella does talk about the various stories which have Alpharius found at different times and in different ways.

Taken at face value, one of the twins, 'Alpharius', was found first on Terra and made the Emperor's secret weapon for Unification and in case any later Primarchs had to be countered immediately upon their discovery. The other twin, 'Omegon', was found last and by 'Alpharius', not by the Emperor.