Jun 2022 Points changes

[CCE1981]

Just starting a discussion on our beautiful new forums.

How do the June points changes affect us?  Are there any more viable units now?

 

Personally I am liking the way Assault Squads look now, a 5-man unit with 3x plasma pistols, and a small power weapon on the sgt is 90 pts.  I think that is worth considering.

[Tokugawa]

AoC is still there. GW even spread it to IG tanks!

 

But it isn't printed in new CSM codex, it is still a temporary enhancement. I think it would last to SM 2.0 codex release. 

[Maritn]

Happy to see drops especially on the big tanks, but still not enough for Repulsors...

[CCE1981]

I agree with that, I don’t think the Repulsors are useful.  The Land Riders, Predators, and Vindicator might be, and the Gladiators are about there.

[Kallas]

3 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

The Land Riders, Predators, and Vindicator might be

Hey, uh, guess who's going to be running three Land Raiders again? 

I still don't think they're great, but I do think (with a little bit of Space Wolf Psychic Power-y help) they can be tough enough to be a pain for the opponent to deal with.

There was also a leaked datasheet of the Chaos Land Raider that showed them with T9 and D6+2 "Soulshatter" Lascannons - if this ends up being true, and carries over to the Phobos, I could see Land Raiders being solid (though Crusaders and Redeemers could do with a little boost to keep up alongside)

[jarms48]

Personally, out of all the marine tank drops only the Vindicator is actually viable. The rest still need to be cheaper. 

[Kallas]

6 minutes ago, jarms48 said:

Personally, out of all the marine tank drops only the Vindicator is actually viable. The rest still need to be cheaper. 

Oh yeah, absolutely. Honestly, I feel like points changes are just a lazy fix - datasheet changes are needed for a good few of our vehicles (eg, Predator Autocannon needs a rework to be in line with 9E design, not early 8E; Land Raiders need Assault Ramp/Vehicle, etc) but points are low hanging fruit and it's good to see some changes, even if they're slow and still not enough. Hell, Predators need dropping in cost even further. I know cross-Codex comparisons aren't great, but a Voidweaver (post increase) is still just miles ahead of a Predator, and costs less.

[phandaal]

Assault Marines got a nice boost. Those kits must have been piling up in the warehouse!

Outriders are still not worth it. Points cost helps, but their other problems remain. Nice for people who were already using them though.

[Captain Idaho]

Centurions got a reasonable points decrease, which combines well with Armour of Contempt and an Apothecary.  I only regret not giving them Lascannons.

Obviously Guilliman is relevant to the Ultramarines players (and Calgar and Victrix Guard and Telion etc) but those are very specific so I won't dwell on them. However, Guilliman can boost non-Core units too which helps other units a little (rerolling 1s to hit is always welcome) as well as Core Units, which includes Dreadnoughts.

Um what else was I pleased with... oh yeah, Typhoons getting a modest points decrease was good. 100pts for a fast objective holder that still puts out equivalent of 3 Devastator heavy weapons a turn isn't too shabby.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I heard the new CSM landraider is T9 and the lascannon inflicts 2+ d6 damage…

[TheNewman]

I hear the CSM Demolisher is now D3+3 shots and Ap 4, that's a nice little boost.

Assault and Devastator Centurions are the same base point cost now; yay, let's all beam down to planet sensible.

Firestrikes are just about the same price as Rapiers and that still doesn't make sense.

[jarms48]

14 hours ago, Kallas said:

Oh yeah, absolutely. Honestly, I feel like points changes are just a lazy fix - datasheet changes are needed for a good few of our vehicles (eg, Predator Autocannon needs a rework to be in line with 9E design, not early 8E; Land Raiders need Assault Ramp/Vehicle, etc) but points are low hanging fruit and it's good to see some changes, even if they're slow and still not enough. Hell, Predators need dropping in cost even further. I know cross-Codex comparisons aren't great, but a Voidweaver (post increase) is still just miles ahead of a Predator, and costs less.

 

Points could work but they'd need to be much cheaper. Look at the Castigator now, 135 points has equivalent of 4 autocannons and 3 heavy bolters.

 

- Predator Destructor and Annihilator: Should be around 105 points. Heavy bolter sponsons should be +20 points and lascannon sponsons +30 points.  

- Baal Predator: Should be around 95 points with the Baal flamestorm cannon and +10 points for the twin assault cannon.  Heavy bolter and heavy flamer sponsons should be +20 points.

 

Though looking at the new CSM leaks, appears that the Predator is becoming T8 and the twin lascannons are D6+2 damage. Which could also make it viable. 

[TheNewman]

Oh yeah, and the Autocannon Predator being more expensive than the Lascannon Predator makes zero sense.

[Minsc]

Welcome and needed changes. Not nearly enough of course, but as a bandaid while waiting for our next codex, these small point-adjustments are welcome.

I really enjoy fielding our various tanks, while those kind of lists will still be sub-par, 10 points per razorback and vindicator, 15 points per predator and gladiator, 20 points per land raider and 25/35 respectively for our repulsors will add up to something. Ironically this means that the Kratos became slightly "worse" (off), but I still love the model.