wolves point updates: thoughts?

[Guest Triszin]

Not too many point updates for us.

 

 

I like the point drops on the storm wolf//fang, but they are traps imho.

 

They lack survivability, and will likely be blasted out t1,2 (like most vehicles).

 

Also happy to see the melta array isn't 50pts

[Kallas]

Skyclaws are looking interesting. 90pts gets you 2 (or 3, not sure) Plasma Pistols, a Power Sword and 4 Chainswords, with free Jump Packs. That unit packs quite a punch for that low of a cost, and their mobility can let them jump on isolated units. Previously, it would have cost 115/120pts, so a 25% cost reduction is pretty cool!

The other points drops are kind of nothing, but I suppose it's better than a random points hike 

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Yeah I think the point drops were necessary but I dont think they went far enough to address the issues with vehicles being so fragile. I honestly think they could take 50 points off the landraider from its new cost and it still wouldn't be a strong choice. Vehicles without an invuln are a tricky choice at this point.

Honestly I didn't see any point drops that made me go "yup gotta take that now" but my Mastodon is only 750 now so I think I'm gunna try to take over the meta with that... 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Rune Priest Jbickb
Need to look up emojis lol

[Wolf Guard Dan]

The sky claws being costed like that make them interesting. And speed is the name of the game this edition.

I want the storm wolf/fang to be useable, but it’s still too costly. I think it’s a hard model to point appropriately. I don’t know at what cost I would take one that wasn’t going to be prices too low. Do I take one at 200? Idk. Gun boats with transport are hard to cost appropriately. 
 

land raiders are so iconic. It’s sad we don’t see them outside of niche lists. They’ve got the same problem of they can do a lot and are priced for that but have an obvious weakness. And they’re not as durable in this meta than they were in 3rd edition.

The character changes are nice. They may be worth fielding more if you want to save CP on relics. 

[Kallas]

3 hours ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

land raiders are so iconic. It’s sad we don’t see them outside of niche lists. They’ve got the same problem of they can do a lot and are priced for that but have an obvious weakness. And they’re not as durable in this meta than they were in 3rd edition.

Once I finally get my  together and get to playing, I'll be putting up some battle reports with my Land Raiders, so I can do the legwork in seeing if they're viable! 

[yan]

Eliminators seem more attractive?

and would also be fun to play around with the stormfang and stormwolf. But probably still get shot t1.

i was hoping for some more points drops. Maybe on the wulfen dreads and on the captains. But maybe its just ok like this and very nice other armys got nerved.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Good point on the eliminators, I like the fudil option on the table, its been decent in the smaller point games I tend to play and might be worth a second look.

[Dark Shepherd]

On 6/25/2022 at 2:21 PM, Kallas said:

Skyclaws are looking interesting. 90pts gets you 2 (or 3, not sure) Plasma Pistols, a Power Sword and 4 Chainswords, with free Jump Packs. That unit packs quite a punch for that low of a cost, and their mobility can let them jump on isolated units. Previously, it would have cost 115/120pts, so a 25% cost reduction is pretty cool!

The other points drops are kind of nothing, but I suppose it's better than a random points hike 

The free/cheap guns for skyclaws is a winner for me

For 150 points you can take 6 inc WGPL with 4 meltaguns and 2 power fists

[Prot]

I started taking Eliminators the second AoC came out. I didn't know they had a point drop as well. Shame about vehicles though. 

[TiguriusX]

On 6/29/2022 at 10:11 AM, Dark Shepherd said:

The free/cheap guns for skyclaws is a winner for me

For 150 points you can take 6 inc WGPL with 4 meltaguns and 2 power fists

How do you get 4 melta guns?

My copy of the codex says

(1) WG Pack leader 

(2) Pack leader and 1 sky claw OR 2 sky claws

All combinations total 3 when I try 

Where is the 4th gun coming from?

[CCE1981]

The Wolfguard Pack Leader can take a combi-melta, and the Skyclaw Pack Leader and up to 2 Skyclaws can take a meltagun.  That is a total of 4x meltagunsz

[Karhedron]

On 6/25/2022 at 2:23 PM, Rune Priest Jbickb said:

Yeah I think the point drops were necessary but I dont think they went far enough to address the issues with vehicles being so fragile. I honestly think they could take 50 points off the landraider from its new cost and it still wouldn't be a strong choice.

If the CSM Codex is anything to go by, we could be seeing T9 Land Raiders and D6+2 Damage on the lascannons. At that point, Land Raiders start looking a bit more interesting, even at their current points. T9 is a significant boost to survivability against S8/9 which is most serious anti-tank weapons. It also helps against the S16 titan-killing weapons out there.

We are also well placed to leverage AoC on Land Raiders as we can stack it with Storm Caller for a 1+ save. I wonder if a Wolves armoured company might be viable?

[TiguriusX]

7 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

The Wolfguard Pack Leader can take a combi-melta, and the Skyclaw Pack Leader and up to 2 Skyclaws can take a meltagun.  That is a total of 4x meltagunsz

This is what the codex says and I am unaware of an update from GW.

 

If 2 skyclaws have guns then the packleader can not take one.

 

Where is your source saying otherwise coming from?

[Kallas]

I think you're looking at an old Codex. My supplement shows:

Quote

• Up to two Skyclaw and Skyclaw Pack Leaders’ bolt pistols can be replaced with one of the following: 1 plasma pistol; 1 weapon from the Special Weapons list.

It is ambiguous, and could be only two; but it could also be all three.

[TiguriusX]

4 minutes ago, Kallas said:

I think you're looking at an old Codex. My supplement shows:

It is ambiguous, and could be only two; but it could also be all three.

LOL yes!!!

Thank you for clearing up my confusion

My wife tidied up my hobby corner not long ago and I didn't realize my books were moved around (I had them on a chair for quick reference).  

I was looking at the prior edition.  

 

Doh...I need to add another melta gun to those sky claws I am testing!!

[Wolf Guard Dan]

15 hours ago, Kallas said:

I think you're looking at an old Codex. My supplement shows:

It is ambiguous, and could be only two; but it could also be all three.

“Up to two Skyclaw and Skyclaw pack leaders’ bolt pistol…” because of the positions of the s’ in leaders I think it’s only two total special weapons that may be taken. If it read “up to two skyclaws’ and Skyclaw pack leader’s bolt pistol” I think then it would be for a total of 3.

you can always ask GW to faq it. 

[Bulwyf]

I don't think it went far enough. I also agree with whoever said it earlier that vehicles without invuln saves are just trap units. There's still zero reason to take a vehicle over a Redemptor. 

[Kallas]

6 hours ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

“Up to two Skyclaw and Skyclaw pack leaders’ bolt pistol…” because of the positions of the s’ in leaders I think it’s only two total special weapons that may be taken. If it read “up to two skyclaws’ and Skyclaw pack leader’s bolt pistol” I think then it would be for a total of 3.

you can always ask GW to faq it. 

That's why I said it's ambiguous 

It could easily be read as either:

• Up to [[two Skyclaw]] [[and Skyclaw Pack Leaders’]]
• Up to [[two]] [[Skyclaw and Skyclaw Pack Leaders’]]

I have emailed GW, but I also don't have great reliance on their responses. An FAQ would be preferable to be clearer. Assault Marines are much easier to determine, because they list the Sergeant separately, where they don't for Skyclaws.

[Karhedron]

I am liking the look of Skyclaws, especially with the free weapons. 120-ish points gets you a 6-man squad (5+PL) with a couple of special weapons, a pistol and a Power Sword on the PL that can Deep Strike and has a 12" move. 6 is perfect for auto-passing RND. In fact I think they are the cheapest unit we have capable of performing actions now.

They are not a powerhouse unit but they are cheap, flexible, great for actions and can carry a few toys for free to allow them to contribute to the battle.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

5 hours ago, Kallas said:

That's why I said it's ambiguous 

It could easily be read as either:

• Up to [[two Skyclaw]] [[and Skyclaw Pack Leaders’]]
• Up to [[two]] [[Skyclaw and Skyclaw Pack Leaders’]]

I have emailed GW, but I also don't have great reliance on their responses. An FAQ would be preferable to be clearer. Assault Marines are much easier to determine, because they list the Sergeant separately, where they don't for Skyclaws.

Looking at their closest comparison, Assault Marines, it is worded differently which makes it confusing. Their sergeant may take a PISTOL upgrade. A separate bullet point allows two more marines to take a plasma pistol/flamer. So common law would support three upgrades total. But it may be intended that the pack leader can take a plasma pistol and due to sloppy writing he can take a special weapon too. When in doubt ask your TO. I am leaning 3 with caution plus the combi your WG pack leader can take.

[yan]

I was thinking of something like this:

captain on bike

jumppack libby

chaplain on bike

3x 5 man assault intersessors

3x 5 man wulfguard, jumppacks lightingclaws

3x 5man wulfen thunderhammers

2x 5 skyclaws

1x cyberwolf

3x 3 eliminators lasfusils

 

 

 

[Wolf Guard Dan]

7 hours ago, yan said:

I was thinking of something like this:

captain on bike

jumppack libby

chaplain on bike

3x 5 man assault intersessors

3x 5 man wulfguard, jumppacks lightingclaws

3x 5man wulfen thunderhammers

2x 5 skyclaws

1x cyberwolf

3x 3 eliminators lasfusils

 

 

 

I like it a lot. I haven’t been a fan of eliminators but 9 las fusil for 225 points sounds legit. Is this roughly around the 2k mark?

[yan]

2 hours ago, Wolf Guard Dan said:

I like it a lot. I haven’t been a fan of eliminators but 9 las fusil for 225 points sounds legit. Is this roughly around the 2k mark?

Yeah right. Its up to 2k. With some free points for some powerfists etc.

Taking the midboard with 9 eliminators can be quite threatening i think, since they can move shoot move. And having them in cover (stormcaller) makes them hard to shift aswell. which means they have to come and take them in melee.

and then you have your wulfen and wulfguard to counter.

Skyclaws, wulfguard and intersessors gives you quite some flexibility for rnd, engage and oaths.

I only have to wait a wile to try it out since I’ll be traveling for a a couple of weeks soon.