3000 points of Legion Ultramarines - The Logos Lectora

[Orange Knight]

This is an army I should be able to put together pretty quickly, as I now own all the models aside from the Primarch.

It is my understanding that games in 30k should be played in the region of 2500 - 3000 points. It appears that units with the Line rule are very important, and I don't know if this list has enough of those, or whether I should go back to the drawing board.

 

HQ:

-Librarian Consul, Force Axe, Biomancy Discipline 

-Master of Signal

Troops:

-10 Tactical Marines, Rhino with Searchlights

-10 Tactical Marines, Rhino with Searchlights 

-20 Tactical Mairines

Elites:

-10 Fulmentarus Terminators, Power Fists

-2 Legion Apothecaries - one will join the Heavy Support Squad, the other will join the 20 strong Tactical unit.

-Contemptor Dreadnought, Gravis Melta, Fist with Melta Gun

Heavy Support:

-Legion Spartan, Two Las Cannon arrays, Twin Lascannon, Combi-Bolter, Flare Shield

-Kratos Tank, Melta Blast Gun, 4 Lascannons, Flare Shield

-10 Legion Heavy Support Marines, Volkite Culverins

Lord of War:

-Primarch Guilliman

 

Edit:

The list has now been expanded to 3k points, and has been edited further following some suggestions.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Orange Knight

[Cruor Vault]

I don't think you're really getting anything out of taking the Logos RoW with this list.  You'd be a lot better off using the same exact models but running Pride of the Legion.

If you're not investing in a large number of versatile infantry squads the benefits of the logos aren't very impressive.

Going PotL will grant line to your terminators, and let you run your tactical squads as veterans.

[infyrana]

I believe you'll need to move those HSS Volkite Culverins into Heavy Support, unless you meant Calivers as Tactical Support Squad ?

You may also wish to grab some Rhinos for all those Tacticals, that way you can ping shots from your rhino to get the bonus for your nearby tacticals with Strength of Wisdom.

Any reason for the Master of Signal ?  If you are worried about line, you could get a Herald instead.

 

*Edit as noted, yes, MoS needed for Legio! My mistake, the pain of not having the liber astartes yet :)

Edited June 26, 2022 by infyrana

[Orange Knight]

Thank you both for the feedback. Yes, the heavy support squad is in the wrong place - I will move it now. I am very tempted to go down the route of Pride of the Legion, and I think the Veteran squads offer so much more.

The Master of Signal is required for the Ultras specific RoW, but he does offer some nice abilities I can confer to units as well.

My thinking behind the Logos comes down to two things: Boosting the cc ability of the Terminators, and controlling leadership for the scoring units.

The Tacticals are there to hold objectives, and with the Logos I can make them stubborn and have them re-roll pinning and leadership when I'm anticipating casualties.

With the Logos and Guilliman combined, I can grant the Terminators Furious Charge, and Improve their Weapon skill by 1. I think this will make a big difference in combat, and I'm aware that a lot of Legion specific Elite options have WS5.

I'll definitely have a read and reconsider the Pride idea. I would definitely prefer to have the Tactical units as 2 wound veterans with exotic weapons. I haven't yet built the squads yet so it's not too late to do that.

Looking at the list, I have a feeling that the Logos will have better returns in a  bigger army, and at 3k there will be more units to take advantage of the various abilities.

I'll have a play around with the list tonight. It wouldn't be too difficult to swap some units and convert it to a Pride of the Legion force.

 

[Cruor Vault]

The Logos is REALLY cool when you start to compare the modified profiles it provides with the Special units of other Legions.  BS 5 Heavy Weapon squads?  WS5 Assault Marines?  WS6 Command Squads?

One of the more exciting combinations I'm thinking about is a huge Assault Squad/Despoilers unit.  Timing the Logos and Guilliman's buffs properly can result in a line unit easily capable of thrashing any other line unit, and putting a solid dent in other legion's specialists.

We're also probably one of the best legions to make use of Destroyer units, between Rad grenades and Furious Charge they're wounding T4 on 2s!

Edited June 26, 2022 by Cruor Vault
a word

[MegaVolt87]

+1 for making this a pride ROW instead, way too light on infantry for Logos. 

[Orange Knight]

I think I'll jump straight to making the list 3k points, and focus on adding additional infantry and Rhinos.

Should I stick to the Cataphractii, or should I bite the bullet and jump straight to a unit of 10 Invectarus Suzerains? I like the idea of running them with access to Furious Charge and a boost to WS6.

[infyrana]

Not running Suzerains would be like choosing a non legion specific army list.  They are line troops with some excellent stats and can include thunder hammers cheaply, plus they wear shields, what's not to like?  Modeling them will be another story.  You could include some terminators too to split target priorities.  Choose the right transport for them though and know that it might still be blown up turn one.

[Orange Knight]

It just becomes difficult as these units can't share a transport.

I'll think hard on the Suzerains, they are simply so expensive it becomes hard to justify... One of the main reasons I settled on the Ultras was the lack of need to buy lots of specialised weapons, characters or units. But their rules seem great, and they are easy to fit into my list.

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Orange Knight

[El Ravager]

I would consider taking Captain Remus Ventanus and putting him with the Terminators.  His Legion Standard would give them Line.  A Centurion Herald would do the same thing at a discount on points.  

 

Maybe swap out the Librarian for him, or add him when you go to 3k points.

[Cruor Vault]

21 hours ago, El Ravager said:

I would consider taking Captain Remus Ventanus and putting him with the Terminators.  His Legion Standard would give them Line.  A Centurion Herald would do the same thing at a discount on points.  

 

Maybe swap out the Librarian for him, or add him when you go to 3k points.

A terminator Centurion Herald would be better yet, as he would have HEAVY unit type and then they wouldn't lose out on their re-roll to saves VS blast weapons.

[Orange Knight]

I have now updated the list and have taken feedback on board.

I will convert the Cataphractii into Fulmentarus Terminators, I feel they add valuable firepower to this particular list.

I will also include a Legion Herald so the large squad has the Line rule.

The list has a lot of bodies now, so I feel the Logos is more worthwhile.

[Mandragola]

If you have the £££ then Invictus Suzerains are phenomenal. They're arguably better terminators, with Line, for the same price. But obviously it's annoying if you have to buy more stuff when the whole point was not doing so.

I think personally that I'd either run 20-man tactical squads with apothecaries or just do something else entirely for troops. You reach a threshold with a big squad where it becomes way harder to attack them, due to the reactions they'll do in response. You always count as stationary when doing reactions so fury of the legion is going to do real harm if you return fire and/or overwatch. On the other hand it feels a bit hard to justify using a reaction on a 10-man squad. They also don't feel amazing coming out of rhinos, since they can't charge or use fury of the legion. Imagine jumping out of a rhino in front of an enemy 20-man with an apothecary - you'd be a bit mad to fire at them, but what else do you do?

[Orange Knight]

You make a very compelling argument. I'll see where I can shave points off to add an extra Apothecary and have him join a large, 20 man squad of Tactical Marines. 

I really like the fact that the FNP can be boosted to a 4+ when they guard an objective.

[El Ravager]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:26 AM, Cruor Vault said:

A terminator Centurion Herald would be better yet, as he would have HEAVY unit type and then they wouldn't lose out on their re-roll to saves VS blast weapons.

Good point.  I over look the Heavy rule too often.  Terminator Centurion Herald is a much better choice in this situation.

[Orange Knight]

Does the unit lose heavy if the character models don't have the rule?

[Cruor Vault]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Does the unit lose heavy if the character models don't have the rule?

They lose the re-rolls to saves VS blast if ANY model in the unit isn't heavy.  So particularly Apothecaries are going to trip people up frequently. Oops, Apothecaries/Techmarines gain the unit sub-types of their parent. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Cruor Vault

[Orange Knight]

Ah that's very interesting. I was planning on running the unit with Guilliman attached, and I don't think he has heavy anyway.

That's interesting to know. I own the rare Cataphractii Primus Medicae model, but now I'll try and get hold of the Cataphractii Librarian also.

[TheNineteenth]

On 6/26/2022 at 4:57 PM, Cruor Vault said:

I don't think you're really getting anything out of taking the Logos RoW with this list.  You'd be a lot better off using the same exact models but running Pride of the Legion.

If you're not investing in a large number of versatile infantry squads the benefits of the logos aren't very impressive.

Going PotL will grant line to your terminators, and let you run your tactical squads as veterans.

PotL only allows 1 Heavy Support choice.

On 6/26/2022 at 5:21 PM, infyrana said:

You may also wish to grab some Rhinos for all those Tacticals, that way you can ping shots from your rhino to get the bonus for your nearby tacticals with Strength of Wisdom.

Shooting from Vehicles is sadly no longer a thing.

[Cruor Vault]

On 7/21/2022 at 10:53 PM, TheNineteenth said:

PotL only allows 1 Heavy Support choice.

Shooting from Vehicles is sadly no longer a thing.

If they swapped out the Heavy Squad for a Support Squad with Volkites they would get a similar effect as the Spartan could be taken as a dedicated transport?

It's not shooting from within the Rhinos.  It's shooting with the Rhinos adjacent to the squad that triggers the UM Legion trait.  It's 35pts for a +1 to hit on most squads.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Cruor Vault

[Orange Knight]

I've played a few small test games, and Rhinos are one of the best sources of search lights.

I think these are practically mandatory as Night Fighting can really cap your army shooting. Potentially sacrificing a Rhino by exposing it with the search light isn't a significant loss if it allows a powerful unit to fire unimpeded by range, and it leads to the removal of something threatening. 

And yes, they do help in triggering the UM army rules with overlapping fire.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Orange Knight

[TheNineteenth]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:26 PM, Orange Knight said:

I've played a few small test games, and Rhinos are one of the best sources of search lights.

I think these are practically mandatory as Night Fighting can really cap your army shooting. Potentially sacrificing a Rhino by exposing it with the search light isn't a significant loss if it allows a powerful unit to fire unimpeded by range, and it leads to the removal of something threatening. 

And yes, they do help in triggering the UM army rules with overlapping fire.

I think the Multi-melta carrier aspect is not to be understated, as well, despite the points hike. It got better and is worth its 30, given it is now twin-linked AND there is no more Armoured Ceramite (spare on the merged Achilles Unit, a vanishingly rare tank).