Drop pod use and the new Drop Pod Assault, how to use?

[Galron]

I used these heavily when I played last edition but this edition pretty much throws prior knowledge and experience out the window. Even 40k experience is worthless on this one. So seeing as we are effectively starting from scratch, how are people going to use this new and radically changed RoW?

The negatives are pretty rough:

-Everything comes in at once. I dont think it comes in turn1 but dont have my book in front of me.

-No longer have the option for starting other deep strike units on the board

-Terminators no longer get any benefits from it 

-Opponent gets at least an entire turn if not two to spread out and screen out the board.

-No longer get to spread out to take different portions of the board

-I assume augury scanners are still a thing(I havent looked)

-Can only bring Deep Strike units

-Disruptors on Master of Signals

Benefits

-Drop pods instead of rhinos....

-it looks cool and fluffy?

-You get to sort of pick your own deployment zone no matter the actual mission?

Yeah, the negatives are kind of bad for what is the classic visual space marine deployment. I am trying to be legion agnostic but some legions do drop pods better than others like Night Lords and Sons of Horus. Note everything I am saying is theoretical, I havent actually put them on the field yet.

For reference-

Fire Support- any kind of shooty squad/unit, be it heavy support, special weapons or legion unique shooty squad

Assault Squad- any kind of mobile melee unit- be it jump assault squads or something along those lines

General- Everything else

Go Big or go home: Everything comes in T2 so put everything in drop pods with maybe a few jump pack troops and use the drop pod units to screen out the assault units. Again legion agnostic, obviously some units like Night Lords have specific units who excel at this. So barring a character that allows terminators to deep strike(Sevetar) you are limited to flyers carrying terminators(dont think they removed that ability from Storm Eagles), deathstorm drop pods, assault squads(and other jump pack dudes) and most of your basic infantry but knocked down to 10 guys. 

So depending on your choice of Master of the Legion he will ride in either a Storm Eagle or Dreadclaw with his retinue or arrive via jump pack. Two 10 man tacticals in drop pods as mandatory but I would bring three as standard for pretty much. I think Despoilers might be a decent choice as well but since we cant charge out of a drop pod and in theory you will have assault squads present so unless you are really just playing the assault angle then I am not seeing the purpose myself.

Now that the mandatory stuff is done I am thinking 2-3 squads of Special Weapon Support squads(or unique legion equivalent) or even a close range Heavy Weapon Support squad. This is your fire support section. I also add a Death storm drop pod or two here as well. Their job is to fire on the heaviest fire power that will be using return fire reactions. I guess in theory they might want to hit the death storms but I know I would rather use it for plasma support squads.

So the real question now is what kind of fire support squads are you dropping down? Suppression should be a priority but killing things is important as well obviously.

Plasma is an auto-include for one squad pointed at the most dangerous unit the opponent is fielding. Rotor cannons are highly useful in the suppression role on paper, not sure how useful they will be on the table. I will have three in each terror squad in my own case. Volkite is cool for killy shooting. With the prevalence of dreadnoughts, thinking a Melta Team will be highly useful. This is a similar role that I would put a multi-melta armed heavy support squad. Three is the minimum that I would bring for this role. 

Assault elements- minimum 2 Assault squads. I would land these behind the drop pods so that in theory the drop pod units will take the majority of the fire from the opponent. 

Everything else: Dreadnoughts in drop pods. With dreadnoughts being so overall good this edition, I think you are handicapping yourself by not bringing at least one and probably two. For some reason people tend to be intimidated by these guys and shoot a lot of things at them, thus why you bring 2. If you are really lucky then the opponent shoots all their intercept fire at them so keep them fairly cheap, they arent going to last long. 

Drop Pod Assault: My plan is when everyone drops, throw the Death storms in the front, make the contemptors prominently threatening, then follow up with the support weapon dudes. I believe that the rule off hand means you place the one drop pod and place the next one within 6" of that and so on. So pretty much place the first pod near something the occupant really wants to destroy and deploy from that placing the death storms near a cluster of enemy troops. Conversely if they have something that screws with deepstrikes then place a tactical pod outside that range and walk them over(Note I am not sure how disruptors work, I have just heard they mess with deep strikes). 

They bring on the assault squads and/or flyers for the turn 3 charge.

This is my theory hammer on this. What is everyone else thinking and why am I wrong? I am sure I am wrong on a number of points BTW.

 

 

 

 

[Uberlord Gendo]

I'm not sure what to do with it either, but a few things:

You do come in on your first turn.

The opponent can only do interceptor fire once per turn. (It's a reaction.)

You can't put things in special kinds of reserve other than Drop Pod Assault, that I don't think you can teleport terminators in, oddly enough, since they'd go into a Deep Strike Assault. I'm not sure what happens with flyers, but I'll check.

(Edit: most fliers get deep strike, just like a teleporting Terminator. This gives them the option to be part of a Deep Strike Assault, but they don't have to and can instead come on from your board edge as normal.)

The MoS is pretty rough- they turn a 1/6 chance of your opponent placing your pods (safely and within 24" of your first pod) into a 50%. Fortunately, at least for right now, I don't think you'll see too many because they apply that 50% chance of disordered deployment to both players, making them a liability unless you're just bringing things in from reserves one at a time from your table edge, which... yeah, I can't think of when I'd want to do that either unless flyers work that way? And it turns out that thanks to Inertial Guidance Systems, pods reroll that anyway. So worst case, it's what, 1/4 instead of 1/2? (Edit: or not. Depends on whether or not a Drop Pod Assault is a specific kind of Deep Strike Assault. The IGS only provides rerolls for Deep Strike Assaults.)

(Edit: Turns out that flyers can work that way if you want them to. So a potentially unreliable second wave of Storm Eagles and a Sokar is perfectly do-able.)

You put your pods within 24" of your first one, which you place and then scatter.

Due to what I imagine is awkward rules writing, I don't think you can take Deathwind pods because they have a separate deployment method which has its own rules, Area Denial Drop. Since that's not Drop Pod Assault... yeah...

The good news is that you can use Kharybdis pods, which have Assault Vehicle, so that gives you 3 first turn charges/20 man squads/10 terminators.

Also, all enemy units in 6" of your pods take pinning tests before your units disembark. So no fear auras, unfortunately.

Soooo, I think a Drop Pod Assault list will probably have the tactical and support squads you outlined, but will tend to want 3 Kharybdis pods for HS carrying squads geared for first turn charges.

Edited June 29, 2022 by Uberlord Gendo
Flyers.

[Hfran Morkai]

It's certainly a shakeup.

I'm looking at doing a Drop Pod list with my Wolves because it's iconic and where I want to start (plus I have at least 7 Pods, a Dreadclaw).

 

Little frustrating Dreadclaws have lost Assault Vehicle but I could see why (I can also see it being an omission but it got through playtesting so I doubt it), however cool they can now take 6 Terminators. Little frustrating all Dreadclaw units have to disembark too.

 

Plus no infiltrating Recon Units but that would be rather powerful.

 

For me it's going to be a couple of Stalker Squads, maybe a Kharbydis with some Slayers. TDA Praetor and Command Squad in Dreadclaw, Contemptor, Xiphon and some other bits and bobs.

 

 

 

[Galron]

The Deathstorm thing has to be shoddy writing. Their entire purpose, even in the novels is drop before the real drop pods come down and suppress the landing zone. Real good scene in "Storm of Iron" that depicts this.

I havent even looked at kharybdis drop pods yet since I dont actually own any. Printing one would take forever too I think. Multiple basketball sized models being brought into the store? LOL I can see the looks of people already. Arent they super heavies?

 

[Hfran Morkai]

Kharbydis is a Heavy Support choice.

 

Which is handy as you're probably not looking at much in that slot beyond the Fire Raptor or Leviathan for Drop Pod armies due to HSS needing to Snap Shot most of their weapons choices when turning up.

 

Which raises my next question on Anti-Tank equipment for a Drop Pod army. Machine Killer Vets was basically the way to go, maybe even with a Master of Signals. Now they're not a thing we've got to think.

 

I'm definitely thinking a Contemptor with Chainfist and Multi-Melta, a Xiphon (as the model is so cool and it can double up as anti-air) but what else is there for chewing up armour? Leviathans obviously but I don't know if I'm there just yet.

[Uthanak]

You can'T deep strike deployment or Outflank depoyment in a Drop Pod Assault rite of war and this is entirely frustrating. You have to come in from normal reserve roll from between turn 2-4 if you don'T drop from the initial drop pod.

To add salt to the wound, certain legions like Imperial Fists get a deep strike Rite of War allowing them to deep strike any unit (even 20 size ones) for 30pts (5 less than a drop pod) and you don't have to spend money on any expensive drop pod model AND you can assault the turn you deep strike ANd they gain shoruded 5+. With that, what is even the point of Drop Pod assault?

Terminators lose deep strike from 1.0 "Orbital assault" and i'm just trying to make a list work andit's infuriating.

My final list so far is Playing sons of Horus black reaving for Deep Striking Justaerin and yeeting everything that doesn'T get a drop pod in my Alied Drop Pod Assault detachment (I went with blood angels) So I can get drop podding Destroyers and Tactical squads.

If I went Drop Pod Assault with my main detachment of Sons of Horus, even with a Jump PAck Praetor giving deep strike to his Justaerin Retinue they couldn'T deploy via deep strike because of the Drop Pod Assault's rule.

If I went pride of the Legion and packed 6x drop pod Veteran squad (because veteran can take drop pod standard) I couldn't drop pod Destroyers or tacticals because you can't take a allied detachment.

So whatever happens seems there is always a hickup with drop pods this edition. :(

[Galron]

As I have mostly been trying to come up with a workable paint scheme recipe for potential 3rd legions instead of reading the rules, holy crap they limited the hell out of this basic rite. Its almost as if they do not want people to take the general rites. My IW rites are both outstanding and little changed from last edition as is Terror Assault from the Night Lords. For a rite that a single roll can screw over from the get go they made this ridiculously hard to use. 

So I forgot about he snap firing thing so that is out.

So we are effectively limited to tacticals, vets, destroyers and seekers + terminators in dread claws(they didnt remove this option did they?) Flyers are pretty decent but they didnt put in Lightning Strike Fighters, which used to be my go to aircraft for tank busting in the last edition but I do have a xiphon sitting around somewhere and a Storm eagle whom I have been putting off building for about 5 years now. 

If I can get the sea green of my test models where I like them I think a SoH/NL force might have potential on my end, similar idea to yours just with terror squads and tacticals instead of destroyers and I even have a warlord trait that I kind of ignored until I read your post, Uthanak. SoH was one of the three chapters I was considering and doing test models for. 

[SmorcInc]

1 hour ago, Galron said:

As I have mostly been trying to come up with a workable paint scheme recipe for potential 3rd legions instead of reading the rules, holy crap they limited the hell out of this basic rite. Its almost as if they do not want people to take the general rites. My IW rites are both outstanding and little changed from last edition as is Terror Assault from the Night Lords. For a rite that a single roll can screw over from the get go they made this ridiculously hard to use. 

So I forgot about he snap firing thing so that is out.

So we are effectively limited to tacticals, vets, destroyers and seekers + terminators in dread claws(they didnt remove this option did they?) Flyers are pretty decent but they didnt put in Lightning Strike Fighters, which used to be my go to aircraft for tank busting in the last edition but I do have a xiphon sitting around somewhere and a Storm eagle whom I have been putting off building for about 5 years now. 

If I can get the sea green of my test models where I like them I think a SoH/NL force might have potential on my end, similar idea to yours just with terror squads and tacticals instead of destroyers and I even have a warlord trait that I kind of ignored until I read your post, Uthanak. SoH was one of the three chapters I was considering and doing test models for. 

All drop pods last I checked reroll the disordered roll. That plus their halved scatters and I think not being allowed to land on terrain or off the board make it super reliable.

[N1SB]

On 6/29/2022 at 9:49 PM, Galron said:

-Drop pods instead of rhinos....

And iirc Drop Pods instead of expensive Land Raider Proteuses, which is a significant points savings.

The Drop Pods came up when a group of us were looking at Ultramarines' elite unit, Invictarus Suzerains, artificer armour/boarding shield guys, more attacks than Terminators, Heavy yet not Bulky, plus they are Line/Scoring Units inherently without the need of a Rite of War.  My only nitpick was this unit's Dedicated Transport was the Land Raider Proteus.  By themselves, Suzerains were a very cost-effective unit.  But add in that Land Raider, their Total Cost of Operation shot way up, it's almost like a hidden cost.

Suddenly, Drop Pods became very enticing.  They could take that Drop Pod RoW because they didn't need one to make the Line/Scoring (like how Terminators would like Pride of the Legion, or Legion-specific RoWs that give Line to their unique units).  It could even be fielded as an Allied Detachment for even more flexibility.

And I think that flexibility is the point here.  The Drop Pods are just an option...to enhance something else.  I don't think you're wrong at all, Brother Galron, because it wasn't like I started by wanting Drop Pods, what I wanted was Suzerains, but the Drop Pods would make Suzerains a pretty annoying alpha strike to deal with.

[Sparika]

I have acquired two second hand drop-pods and I'm considering the opportunity of this rite of war as it looks much fun. The strategy seems to me to take and hold an advanced objective and wait and hold for reinforcments coming from reserves.

I have a question though. What would be the interest of using a dreadnought drop pod given the points and euro difference between that and the dreadclaw? The dreadclaw is 99€/115pts while the dreadnought drop pod is 96€/100pts. In term of flexibility the dreadclaw is clearly best as it can be used outside of the drop rite of war.

[Galron]

Dreadclaw is better usually for the reasons you stated. Didnt the dreadclaw have a limit last edition where Leviathans and deredeos couldnt fit in them?

[Sparika]

So after checking, I did not see any restriction in HH 1.0 with respects to what can board the dreadclaw. The dreadnought drop pod even had a rule (retroburner or something) that would protect the dreadnought for one turn. This protection is no more in 2.0.

[Slips]

2 hours ago, Sparika said:

So after checking, I did not see any restriction in HH 1.0 with respects to what can board the dreadclaw. The dreadnought drop pod even had a rule (retroburner or something) that would protect the dreadnought for one turn. This protection is no more in 2.0.

Its for the best, the retroburner rule cause SO MANY problems in play.