Imperial Knights in War Zone Nephilim, good or bad?

[Viridovix]

Hail Brothers of the Imperium.

With the new matched play system many things changed - especially CPs! 

How does this affect our Imperial Knights? What about secondaries? What kind of lists are now good/bad? 


Personally, in a 1000 point list (my usually kind of match is 2v2, 1000 points per player) I found that bringing a Big Guy with three Armigers isn't really functional. Tell me what do you think!

[Karhedron]

The CP changes hit us hard as we need 3+ Questoris or Titanic & 6 Armigers to avoid losing CPs. These restrictions are hard to meet at anything below 2000 points. The new Codex made us decent but not really top-tier and Nephilim has nerfed us hard for no readily apparent reason.

[sairence]

I actually think Knights are in a pretty decent spot. For 2k games the tripple Questoris/4 Armiger builds are unfortunately probably not as viable anymore, because you can't stack them with pre-game upgrades...but I've had good success with 2 Questoris/7 Armigers and they're great fun to play. Below 2k it's probably a good bit more tricky, but I haven't played at anything else in a long time, so can't really comment.

In terms of strat use it'll require some solid planning, though we're in a better spot than most thanks to Defend the Realm. But that's going to be the biggest adjustment and thankfully everyone is in the same spot.

And Nephilim helped us in one regard quite a bit: We can pick all faction secondaries now. Honour the House, Yield no Ground and Renew the Oaths are pretty likely good choices in almost any game and now we can take them all. I've usually struggled to find a third worthwhile secondary before.

 

[Viridovix]

Yes, the CP nerf got us, especially those like me who loved playing 4 armigers and 1 Errant in games of 1000 points. It means I'll probably play with six armigers at this point.

Secondaries are good indeed with the Nephilim pack. Overall I think we are not a crap army, but obviously we're not the overpowered army (and thank the Throne, I don't like to be that guy ;P)

I just played with House Taranis. Any recommendations on other interesting houses?

[sairence]

I found Raven to be fun, especially if you have an Errant throwing out Bondsmans. Advance, shoot, charge every turn to your hearts content. 

On the Imperial side I like Terryn for their strat and for the relic making the battlecannon not terrible. 

Haven't played any other Houses yet, but I found I struggle with survivability when not going Mechanicus. That 13th wound on the Armigers has come up way more times than I ever would have thought possible.

[Viridovix]

23 hours ago, sairence said:

I found Raven to be fun, especially if you have an Errant throwing out Bondsmans. Advance, shoot, charge every turn to your hearts content. 

On the Imperial side I like Terryn for their strat and for the relic making the battlecannon not terrible. 

Haven't played any other Houses yet, but I found I struggle with survivability when not going Mechanicus. That 13th wound on the Armigers has come up way more times than I ever would have thought possible.

Each time a model with this tradition makes a Normal Move or Advances in your Movement phase, until the end of your Shooting phase, it can ignore any or all modifiers to its Move characteristic and Advance rolls, and each time it is selected to shoot it counts as having Remained Stationary.

 

I never tried this one to be honest. Does this rule means I can shoot and charge even if I advanced? 

The Terryn seems interesting but I unfortunately have not that many knights who goes melee. I'll consider when I have more!

[sairence]

No, it's a combination of things. Raven let's you advance and count as stationary for shooting. So all guns can fire without penalty. I think it also lets you ignore dense terrain penalties in the movement phase, but not 100% on that.

And the Knight Errants Bondsman ability lets a unit advance and charge with a +1 to each. Combine both and you can advance with a +1, shoot without penalties, then charge with a +1. Don't forget to go WHEEEE as you're racing around the board. 

 

[Viridovix]

9 hours ago, sairence said:

No, it's a combination of things. Raven let's you advance and count as stationary for shooting. So all guns can fire without penalty. I think it also lets you ignore dense terrain penalties in the movement phase, but not 100% on that.

And the Knight Errants Bondsman ability lets a unit advance and charge with a +1 to each. Combine both and you can advance with a +1, shoot without penalties, then charge with a +1. Don't forget to go WHEEEE as you're racing around the board. 

 

 

Ah, gotcha. Definetely useful if you play in long tables! Thank you!

[Tokugawa]

IK win a 150 players major:

== DETACHEMENT Super-lourd : Imperial Knights (0 PC) [104PC, 1985pts] == Trait d'armée : Lance Sans-fief - Héros Indomptables, Sans-fief

Seigneur de Batailles 1 : 3 Armigères Hastaires (145 + 2*145) [450 pts] [24 PP] - Seigneur de guerre
 3 Fuseur, Chevalier Baron (-1 PC), Lance de Sans-fief, Personnage, Allégeance - Questor Imperialis, Sans-fief, Trait : Commandant Rusé, Trait : Tradition Imperialis - Frapper et Protéger
Armiger 1 : Seigneur de guerre (pas de traits)
Armiger 2 : Chevalier baron : Commandant rusé
Armiger 3 : rien
Seigneur de Batailles 2 : 3 Armigères Helvériens (155 + 2*155) [465 pts] [24 PP]
 3 Mitrailleuse Ironhail de Questor, Patrimoine de la Maisonnée (-1 PC), Lance de Sans-fief, Allégeance - Questor Imperialis, Sans-fief, Relique : Le Heaume du Bâtard, Trait : Tradition Imperialis - Chasseurs de Bêtes
Seigneur de Batailles 3 : 1 Armigères Hastaires (145 ) [150 pts] [16 PP]
 1 Fuseur, Lance de Sans-fief, Allégeance - Questor Mechanicus, Sans-fief, Trait : Tradition Mechanicus - Honorables Sacristains
Seigneur de Batailles 4 : Chevalier Paladin (425) [485 pts] [24 PP]
 Nacelle lance-roquettes Stormspear, Cour Exaltée Héraut, Chevalier Baron (-1 PC), Relique (-1 PC), Cour Exaltée, Lance de Sans-fief, Personnage, Allégeance - Questor Imperialis, Sans-fief, Relique : Heaume Dominatus, Trait : Rempart Ionique, Trait : Tradition Imperialis - Parangons d'honneur
Seigneur de Batailles 5 : 3 Armigères Hastaires (145 + 2*145) [435 pts] [16 PP]
3 Mitrailleuse Ironhail de Questor, Lance de Sans-fief, Allégeance - Questor Imperialis, Sans-fief, Trait : Tradition Imperialis -  Nobles Combattants

 

The list is in French, but it is not difficult to recognize 1 Paladin, 7 Warglaives and 3 Helverins.

 

[Lord_Ikka]

I've got a buddy who is running 2 Questoris (Gallant, Crusader I believe) and then a mix of 7 Armigers (3 Helverin, 4 Warglaives) at 2k points and been doing pretty well. He's Mechanicus House, but I don't remember the specific one, and only starting with 1 or 2 CP to give his guys a lot of upgrades as far as Relics and Warlord Traits. 

[sairence]

2 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said:

I've got a buddy who is running 2 Questoris (Gallant, Crusader I believe) and then a mix of 7 Armigers (3 Helverin, 4 Warglaives) at 2k points and been doing pretty well. He's Mechanicus House, but I don't remember the specific one, and only starting with 1 or 2 CP to give his guys a lot of upgrades as far as Relics and Warlord Traits. 

Heh, that's exactly the same list I will end up trying into Chaos Knights next week. It looks potent.

In general, I've come to the oppinion that the 3 Questoris style is pretty dead, unless you want one of them the to be Canis Rex, because he's a buffed character without spending CP on him. The one Questoris, 11 Armigers also look interesting too, though I have a feeling your big Knight will not end up doing much and sitting back to stay safe in most games.

interesting that the French guy went for Freeblade Lance. Will be interesting to read the Goonhammet article on Wednesday for the exact make up, my French is too terrible to translate the abilities and upgrades he went. :p

[Viridovix]

My nobles, I have 1500 points so far right now, and thanks to your lists and tips I know what to do in the future. Thank you!

[Lord Blackwood]

Despite the damage of the CP  change it seems like knight lists are performing reasonably well in the meta so far.  A number of different builds are popping up here and there and placing. Just a bit difficult for me right now to really focus on building out an army list from my collection there is a lot of rules bloat and the lack of support for the forgeworld knights kinda sucks. 

[Magos Takatus]

Yeah, I'm just putting the finishing touches to a Castigator and it is really annoying me that GW did the absolute bare minimum to update the FW Knights. I haven't dived into the Codex to see what I can do with my Knights yet but hopefully I can get a decent army without having to replace all my Knights with Armigers. 

 

[Lord_Ikka]

I'm having another box of Warglaives shipped to me, so I'll finally have a 2k Knight list to run. Should be pretty fun, even if the bookkeeping is way more than I'm used to (Chivalric Oath and such). Looking to have the Crusader and Helverins stay back and defend/shoot up stuff, while the Atrapos and Warglaives yeet across the board and annoy people. Can't wait to go up against my buddy's Knights!

++ Super-Heavy Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [2CP, 1,990pts] ++
Questor Allegiance: House Raven, Questor Mechanicus
+ Lord of War +
Armiger Helverins [310pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Questor Cognis Heavy Stubber
. Armiger Helverin: Questor Cognis Heavy Stubber
Armiger Warglaives [300pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
Armiger Warglaives [300pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
. Armiger Warglaive: Meltagun
Cerastus Knight Atrapos [-1CP, 520pts]: Knight Baron, Warlord Trait: Cunning Commander
Knight Crusader [-3CP, 560pts]: Character (Knight Lance), Exalted Court: Forge Master, Heirloom: Endless Fury, Meltagun, Order of Companions, Stormspear Rocket Pod, Stratagem: Relic, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, Thermal Cannon, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Blessed by the Sacristans
++ Total: [2CP, 1,990pts] ++

[sairence]

Nice :)

One thing I've found is that it's not that big of a deal if the Helverins get stuck in combat. Their guns aren't blast, so they can still shoot in engagement range and clear up a lot of things that might try to tie them up. 

So I'm trying to adjust my mindset so I don't play too defensively with them. There's just no need and its actually cost me games before.

[dice4thedicegod]

I’m hoping they are decent - I’m thinking of taking a 3 questoris taranis list to a rtt on Saturday!

(I was tempted by Griffith… but they look so fragile compared to taranis)

[TechCaptain]

Interesting people are having CP problems. I was able to out CP pace most other armies thanks to Chivics, that Extra gain on honorable helps alot, and I am not a heavy spender so it worked well for me in my 2k list combined with Admech.