Armour marks and legions

[Bat33.1]

With the release of MkVI in the new big box which legions in the lore are associated with specific armour marks?

I'm not fully committed to a legion yet and part of that is the decision to put new MkVI front and centre with a new scale compared to previous plastic MkIV and MkIII 

MkVI in my mind is suited to BA, AL, RG, DA and maybe IF as they were held back on terra so would likely get new supplies quickly. It may be my lack of knowledge but some legions just don't feel right with MkVI - thoughts?

[bushman101]

Sometimes its more of a matter of 'who got what and when'. 

I modeled my BA as mid-heresy.  Mostly IV, with some III and V. Very little VI. 

So if your planning a legion, maybe theme it on a time period or a major battle

[No Foes Remain]

It is generally up to the player really, just pick and choose what you like and what you feel would suit your army.

  Before GW reworked Mk VI's background it was mostly used by the Raven Guard and Alpha Legion, with some other Legions having a few plates which would have (by the more practical Legions) been given to those best suited to use the lighter and quieter qualities of the plate. Now though, if you have a load of Mk VI for your World Eaters, for example, just say they raided a supply world that had the suits in storage waiting to be sent out but with the Heresy they just languised there.

  The Civil War dragged on for several years, there would come a point where all Legions would use what they could get ahold of and disregard any bias out of the basic need to equip their troops.

 

Before you start you need to ask yourself a few questions which the good Bushman above mentioned.

- Obvious one is, what Legion(s) to do?

  As you have said, some had a preference for MkVI and some had more suits of it from the get-go. Both the Salamanders and Iron Warriors field tested early variants of the Mk VI suit so, despit their dislike for it, they would have had some in their armouries and thus pressed it into service when needed. It was mentioned in Black Book 9 that the Dark Angels had gotten a number of suits themselves, with them being a favoured Legion it wouldn't strain the imagination that they'd have their own supply lines hidden away (even those at Caliban could have intercepted a few shipments seeking to use Caliban as a waypoint before carrying onwards).

- Where is your chosen Legion(s) active?

  For example, my own Ultramarines are split into two companies, the Terran born who aren't that favoured thus rely upon a lot of older gear and the new Ultramarian company who have some better gear than the Terrans. On the flip side, my Sons of Horus will mainly be in slightly upscaled Mk IV with some MkVI on Seeker and recon squads. My Ultramarines will be away from the main supply lines and fighting a different war when the Heresy comes knocking while my Sons of Horus would be part of the traitor push into the Segmentum Solar and thus able to get better supplies.

  You could perhaps to a Blood Angels company that wasn't able to make the muster at Signus, who came to a resupply world and found a number of Mk IV suits waiting for them. Or a Dark Angels force that was sent along with Corswain after Thramas to see how bad things are in the wider Imperium while the Lion took the rest of the Legion to Macragge?

- When are your chosen Legion(s) set?

  Do you want a force that is set during the first year of the Heresy or maybe during the middle or even a Siege of Terra themed force? Both the Blood Angels and Imperial Fists fought at Terra and would have had some good gear that was being made and pushed to the defenders and the fresh and raw companies being made up. Alternatively a midway Alpha Legion force would have some great gear as they had their own supply lines, or even a Raven Guard force who were tasked with raiding supply lines and finding equipment for the Legion to continue their own war agaist the Traitors.

 

Once you've covered those questions you should have a rough idea of where to go... Or be a madman like me and just have a main Legion (Ultramarines and Sons of Horus) and plan to have a small 1,000-2,000 point 'allied' force made up of other Legions.

[Bat33.1]

Thanks for the helpful replies No Foes and Bushman, I still am undecided on a Legion but my 40k army is Death Guard which rules them out as an option mainly because as much as I enjoy heavyily weathering models I want to try something different for HH 2.0

I know GW have said every legion has at some point access to MkVI with some having more suits than most and as you have said it's about setting a time period for the legion you are building to theme it. I am likely to pick a traitor legion and have a few that interest me, Night Lords - I blame ADB for this, Word bearers because it's all their fault or possibly Emperors Children as I've not painted a purple marine army and some of the FW legion units sculpts are very nice. Alpha Legion mainly due to the MkVI and the paint scheme using clears is reasonably quick.

Night Lords - I have no idea if they managed to get their blood thirsty hands on MkVI as they spent much of the early to mid Heresy sparring with the Dark Angels in Thramas and the one thing that has had me avoid NL for so long is painting lightning well enough that I'd be happy with the results. Word Bearers I painted in the early days of HH but sold them before gaming with them, they went over to the US and were used at LVO, so I'm comfortable with the scheme and huge amounts of script decals that are required but due to the Calth box I have them in my head as a MkIV legion at least in the early years and I still have a fair few unbuilt sprues of MkIV and MkIII for that matter along with Tartaros. Then we come to Emperors Children, would they have had easy access to MkVI and how do people deal with the lack of aquillas on the chest plate? The FW legion units are fully blinged up but MkVI is very plain does that fit for line units as they were one of the smallest legions if memory serves?

[OttoVonAwesome]

I'm inspired to do a force based on the older artworks when the legions had thier own homebuilt patterns of power armour that were all based on mk6 with mk7 shoulder pads and a unique helmet like the Macragge pattern and the blood angels one that the current upgrade heads are based on. Since these patterns are based on basically retconned lore it doesn't really matter what "period" the force is from and It's easily justfied anyway since they are technically not mk6 at all but homegrown offshoots of the original experimental pre war mk6.

[bushman101]

27 minutes ago, PJ1933 said:

 Then we come to Emperors Children, would they have had easy access to MkVI and how do people deal with the lack of aquillas on the chest plate? The FW legion units are fully blinged up but MkVI is very plain does that fit for line units as they were one of the smallest legions if memory serves?

Well, you have a few options:

*Transfers. Cheap and cost effective if you can find the right size

*1st born 40k marine bits. There is a marine chest bit that has the Aquila on it. Maybe size it up and see if it fits  

*random Aquila bits. I have a random assortment of these from various kits. Maybe bend them to fit and glue on

*FW or similar bit store. Depending on your source, may cost a bit

*3d print? Brrrrrrtttt

Edited July 3, 2022 by bushman101

[OttoVonAwesome]

Emperors Children apparently in newest lore bits had so much mark 6 by the end of the war that it became thier trademark pattern and new 40k plastics are rumoured to be based on it. I would kind of imagine they might have ditched the Palatine aquila by then as it was thier symbol when they were still loyal and giving that early war they were also known for having massive amounts of mark4 the massive shift to mark 6 armour may have been to purge the symbol from thier ranks but they prolly just really liked the enhanced auto senses since they are all Slaanesh degenerates by then.

Edited July 3, 2022 by OttoVonAwesome

[Chaeron]

6 hours ago, bushman101 said:

Sometimes its more of a matter of 'who got what and when'.

This is an excellent point: it’s also why sometimes certain legions might seem to have more than others, but at the end of the day it’s definitely a rule of cool and what fits your force and fluff. There’s no reason to discount the possibility of different Legions accessing certain marks at points that may be less commonly thought of - perhaps they were a prototype or it occurred through luck - these things happen, and it gives you scope to model your vision. It might be slightly less likely, but it’s a big galaxy!

I think whilst certain Legions have a more iconic look and thus a perception that they need that ‘mark’ to be recognisable, more goes into it than just that. I have a personal preference for my Death Guard to be in Mark III, but there’s a number of other marks within the force and it all looks cohesive. Plus, seeing what others do is similarly inspiring - it’s preference in the end for what you choose to model and paint!

[davextreme]

The problem with the lore about certain legions using certain marks is that it limits your options as a consumer. GW wants to be able to sell you any box any have it work with your army. Leaving things looser means you can build whatever you think looks good and not be “wrong.”

The alternative would be for them to be rigorous about the timeline and prescribe that you have to pick a year when the battle is taking place, consult which legions yours was fighting with & against at that time, what they were wearing, etc. Or you can just, you know, play the game.

[Cactus]

1 hour ago, bushman101 said:

Well, you have a few options:

*Transfers. Cheap and cost effective if you can find the right size

*1st born 40k marine bits. There is a marine chest bit that has the Aquila on it. Maybe size it up and see if it fits  

*random Aquila bits. I have a random assortment of these from various kits. Maybe bend them to fit and glue on

*FW or similar bit store. Depending on your source, may cost a bit

*3d print? Brrrrrrtttt

That's a great list of options but I think you missed one. Or is freehand painting a lost art?

One of the best things GW did in the last twenty years is inflate the size of the Legions to tens of thousands. With each legion having its own visual style and touchpoints (which sometimes includes certain marks of armour) there is still room for your 100 dudes to be the exception without diluting the Legion's essence.

[tinpact]

Generally I'd say the overall aesthetic is more important than the particular mark of armor - a Death Guard legionnaire in Mk6 will look different from an Emperor's Children one will look different from an Iron Hands one, etc. and in more ways than just their paintjobs.

Equipment, iconography, ornamentation and so on are other distinguishing marks you can use, and frankly I think do a better job of conveying a legion's identity than by colors alone.

Also, press-molds are an easy and good way to get lots of Aquilas onto your guys.

Edited July 4, 2022 by tinpact

[Marshal Mittens]

Chaos Space Marines have long been MKV/VI and the lore has shifted many times. MKVI was the Heresy armor for ages, until the last decade or so. I think it can suit any legion, even if astetically it fits some legions loads better than others. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Marshall Mittens

[bushman101]

3 hours ago, Cactus said:

That's a great list of options but I think you missed one. Or is freehand painting a lost art?

Hahaha.

I left that off on purpose. Everytime I suggest free-hand, I get groans in response.

I gave easier solutions.  But free-hand is always a option if you have the touch 

Edited July 4, 2022 by bushman101

[Gederas]

Here's a summary from CodeWalrus (admin/owner of the 30k discord) regarding the "when" for Marks of Power Armour:

"Generally, if you're doing Great Crusade themed marines, MK2-4 are fine. Late GC, MK5 and 6 become useful. HH itself? Anything but MK7. Siege? throw a few MK7 bits in if you want."

Every Legion basically had every Mark of Power Armour before Mark 7. Some legions had preferences for certain marks, but this doesn't mean they didn't use what they had available.

[Jareddm]

20 hours ago, PJ1933 said:

Night Lords - I have no idea if they managed to get their blood thirsty hands on MkVI as they spent much of the early to mid Heresy sparring with the Dark Angels in Thramas and the one thing that has had me avoid NL for so long is painting lightning well enough that I'd be happy with the results. 

Not only did the Night Lords get MkVI but they got it by stealing it from the local Thramas Sector forge worlds.  That means that by the latter half of the Heresy the pattern was widespread enough for even forge worlds way out in the galactic boonies to have had some on hand.

[Bat33.1]

Thanks people all useful responses and food for thought 

What about the old mix n match of armour marks? MkVI with mkIV shoulder pads or helmets? I have some MkV resin marines that are unbuilt so even if they don't match well for scale the helmets should be usable. Rule of cool and work out a back story to fit with what I build or do you all work a back story first and build to an idea?

[Gederas]

26 minutes ago, PJ1933 said:

Thanks people all useful responses and food for thought 

What about the old mix n match of armour marks? MkVI with mkIV shoulder pads or helmets? I have some MkV resin marines that are unbuilt so even if they don't match well for scale the helmets should be usable. Rule of cool and work out a back story to fit with what I build or do you all work a back story first and build to an idea?

Shoulder pads and helmets are universal for armour marks. It's the more in-depth stuff that requires modifications from a techmarine (IE: Mark VI body and legs with Mark IV arms and a Mark III power pack)

[Mandragola]

For me, a difficulty is that I don't think the various marks of armour always look good together. 3 and 4 look like an entirely different culture designed them. 4 and 6 are similar, but the actual proportions of the guys are different. As such I think it makes sense to use a single mark for each Legion you have.

Some time before 8th edition 40k dropped I had quite a big 7th Legion army and started work on Ravenguard, using mainly Mk4 with some Mk6 scrounged from here and there. Now I find that the old 4s don't look too great next to the new 6s, so I have these mk4 guys kind of spare. I don't quite know what I'll do with them but there's a real possibility I'll start on a new Legion at some point - possibly something like Word Bearers so as to have something totally different.

[Scammel]

3 hours ago, Gederas said:

Here's a summary from CodeWalrus (admin/owner of the 30k discord) regarding the "when" for Marks of Power Armour:

"Generally, if you're doing Great Crusade themed marines, MK2-4 are fine. Late GC, MK5 and 6 become useful. HH itself? Anything but MK7 unless you are IF, damn aren't they just the coolest I love IF so much. Siege? throw a few MK7 bits in if you want."

Fixed to account for Sigismund's Martian foray.  

[Warsmith Annüss]

I mixed some mkIII, mkVI and resin printed heads. I don't mind having a ramshackle look for my IW.

Sorry, for the bad photo.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Thrall_Love

[Bat33.1]

That's a really useful picture Thrall_Love I've not got around to building marines yet I had a couple of diemos rhinos I decided to start with as they don't need a decision on a legion unless you want to go with FW legion doors.

[Warsmith Annüss]

Thanks. I went IW as I have small force for 40k and these will fit in nicely. 

Working on your vehicles is smart. You're still building the army until you settle in a legion.

[Tyberion]

6 hours ago, PJ1933 said:

Night Lords - I have no idea if they managed to get their blood thirsty hands on MkVI as they spent much of the early to mid Heresy sparring with the Dark Angels in Thramas and the one thing that has had me avoid NL for so long is painting lightning well enough that I'd be happy with the results. 

I built up my early-Heresy Night Lords company using the Calth and Prospero boxes. The mostly mk.III and mk.IV guys were joined by a few mk.VI suits that I got from the standard 40k Tactical Squad box. My explanation: there were a lot of dead Raven Guard after the Dropsite Massacre and the VIII's techmarines were able to cobble together a few working suits from the slain.