Scouts worth a look again?

[XeonDragon]

So, it appears scouts can take sniper rifles for free. That got me thinking, whilst cheap sniper rifle units that can screen the mid-board might be cool for Raven Guard, might there be some play for BA?

For 140 points you could take a single squad and combat squad it. Maybe have combat knives on a squad with the sergeant having a chainsword, and stick sniper rifles on the rest. At 140 points it is cheaper than incursors, of would hurt less if you go second and they get shot off the board turn 1 as they are cheaper :)

I was thinking maybe a single large squad split in two might make for some cheap screening with a bit of combat threat via the knives and plink some wounds of characters, especially if combined with screening by eliminators or a couple of squads of incursors. I could see 140 points of scouts + 2 units of eliminators (150 points) really jamming up the mid-board to give some time and space for heftier BA melee units to get up the board more securely if you go second.

Thoughts? 

[Helias_Tancred]

Cheap sniper scouts with some Eliminators you could really hurt the armies that depend on their HQ auras.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Helias Tancred

[Karhedron]

I am not certain, they are slightly cheaper but still very fragile with no ObjSec. A 5-man sniper squad is 70 points for 5 wounds with a 4+ save (or 85 for a 2+ save in cover with camo cloaks).

75 points gets you 3 Eliminators which is 6 wounds with a 3+ save (or 1+ if you get them into cover). The Eliminators offer less chances to fish for MWs but the basic damage output from the guns is better. I think Eliminators still have the edge. I guess Scouts are Elites so we are more likely to have spare slots than Heavies which does allow stacking.

[Tokugawa]

After painted my first eliminator model, I put it on table and next to a scout model. The scout is barely higher than 50% of an eliminator.

 

I immediately decided to shelf all my old scout models. I can't violate my own aesthetics. 

 

Rules wise, eliminators now get portable lascannon for free. Then who cares a sniper rifle is free or not free?

[XeonDragon]

10 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Rules wise, eliminators now get portable lascannon for free. Then who cares a sniper rifle is free or not free?

Good point, I suppose I was looking at it from the perspective of cheap forward-deployed screening units first and foremost, but that is a good point. 

[Karhedron]

19 hours ago, Tokugawa said:

Rules wise, eliminators now get portable lascannon for free. Then who cares a sniper rifle is free or not free?

It depends on your target I guess. Las Fusils seem a bit weak for big-game hunting compared to all the melta available while some armies are vulnerable to having their support Characters knocked out by snipers (maybe slightly less since AoC). The two guns just do slightly different jobs.

[MasterOfAardvarks]

Against HQ-reliant forces, any way to eliminate auras or healing is valuable. I think with the ability to ressurect Obliterators that CSM got, I will be taking a few extra rifles just to start taking out those healers and buffing characters. Eliminators are great, but the chance to fish up some mortal wounds on a character sounds too useful to ignore.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Once they port Las rules from 30k to 40k...which is a fair possibility it's just an additional nail in the coffin for Scouts.

The only time scouts are going to be played going forward is in 30k or narrative games. And even then probably not.

There are just too many better options and the models have aged poorly. Even if we did some conversion with the Templar Neophytes the elite slot they take up is just too saturated and better.

I'd much rather field Redemptors, Aggressors, Death Company, SG, or other dreads/vets and have my snipers in the heavy slot which are already fundamentally better.

[Paternus]

One of my favourites (heads replaced) from a modelling perspective 

[Morticon]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:09 AM, XeonDragon said:

So, it appears scouts can take sniper rifles for free.

 

This is such a cool find!! well spotted.  Snipers in Speeders may be a jam! 

[Jolemai]

Sorry, where does it say sniper rifles are free?

 

[Paternus]

That list does not mention them at all so they are either in the basic cost of the scout or not an option.

[Majkhel]

Where is the list from and are we sure it's fully up to date?

[Metzombie]

The list is from the online points PDF on the Warhammer comunity site. And the PDF has a very important sentence on the first page many people did not read.

Quote

(weapons and other wargear not listed in a unit’s entry cost no additional points to include in that unit)

 

[Jolemai]

Seems BS missed that too 

[Karhedron]

With action Secondaries getting a bit of a buff in Nephilim, I am wondering if a cheap squad of action monkeys has any value. Deploy them out of LOS in a table quarter you expect might be hard to access and simply retrieve that data.

The trouble is I keep thinking Phobos units offer better value for the points. Yes Incursors/Infitrators cost more but they are Troops, have twice as many wounds and better armour. Eliminators make better snipers. If you desperately need a dirt-cheap Infantry unit, Scouts are the best. But in most cases, spending a few more points to get a similar Phobos unit just seems better.

[Wugo_Heaving]

For Scouts to be even remotely viable in any context (with any chapter) they need to be moved to the Fast Attack slot and get most, or all, of their wargear for free. At a push, maybe have a new re-deploy special rule of some kind, or maybe a CP farming/denying rule would be more unique and worthwhile? I doubt GW will support them in any real way though.

 

[Karhedron]

I agree with most of your suggestions but not moving to the FA slot. We have 6 Elite slots going spare but only 3 FA. I normallt fill my FA quickly with MM Attack bikes, Plasma Inceptors and now a cheap RAS for action duty and cheap melta.

[Wugo_Heaving]

FA isn't as crowded, and there's much more of a precedence for the Elite slots being filled quickly. I mean, I like the FA slot and use Land Speeders and even regular Bikes and Assault Squads (before they were cool) but it's still the more logical place for scouts.  Anyway, maybe Scouts just shouldn't take up any slot at all? Since, apart from points drops and crazy, powerful rule shenanigans I can't think how to 'solve' them.