Which Special Weapons do you think are worth it in Support squads?

[Dont-Be-Haten]

11 minutes ago, Bung said:

I would add, If you want a Support Squad with Volkite Chargers you probably want to get them Chainswords too for charging after shooting.

That could give you a cheap Squad that can punch a bit above its own weight.

 

This is how I would kit them out. Same thing for flamer squads. 

I'd probably even give the sergeant a lightning claw/raven talon.

[Canadian_F_H]

My bro did this. Made them Death wing to buff their chainswording.  Not sure how worthwhile it is, but it's cool.

 

[Ganders]

Just out of curiosity are heavy bolters never even considered?

I don't play, I only paint (check out my blood angels recently posted in this sub forum). But I recently started building a heavy support squad of heavy bolters only because they look so cool and they are iconic.

But gameplay wise a no go?

[Canadian_F_H]

They used to be a weak option in HH1.  They are slightly better now because +1 shots, and IF get +1 to hit with them, while Iron Warriors can dump their AP in exchange for Pinning and also bump them to S7 vs vehicles/dreads/automata.  Further IW Havocs have the shrapnel version by default and have BS5 and Precision shots(6+).

still a tough sell in my opinion.  Using 1 of the only 3 HS slots for just Marines with Heavy Bolters doesn't seam to be a good idea imo.  I've got lots of other places to put the shrapnel heavy bolters.  Mostly via tank sponsons to pin enemy infantry while the main guns do their job.

 

that said.  Heavy Bolter devastators are iconic.  I just don't know when I would ever take them (I always end up building them tho, haha)

 

oh wait.  Can't some squads take them as a special weapon? Things with relentless such as veterans?  That's not a bad idea. (Tho other options may still be better)

 

[Bung]

1 hour ago, Ganders said:

Just out of curiosity are heavy bolters never even considered?

I don't play, I only paint (check out my blood angels recently posted in this sub forum). But I recently started building a heavy support squad of heavy bolters only because they look so cool and they are iconic.

But gameplay wise a no go?

 

The problem is, the Volkite Culverin is better in anything the Heavy Bolter does and its just a 5 Points Upgrade.

[Spagunk]

Relentless heavy bolters are a pretty good deal since it remove the one bummer about heavy weapons. But you only get two of them in a squad of 10 so it may not be terribly worthwhile when you could just use a combi-weapon instead.

However it would look real sweet IMO. Heavy bolters are just iconic!

[Canadian_F_H]

I like the idea of a pair of shrapnel Cannons in a Vet squad.  Really they are just Heavy Bolters with different ammo. Same range as regular Bolters, so they will match well enough.  Should be handy for jumping out of a transport to pin something and be over all more dangerous and durable than a special weapon squad.

 

Back to special weapon squads specifically tho:

 

For tactical support squads; meltaguns, plasmaguns and rotor cannons all have strong use cases.  Volkite chargers are cheap and useful, but available in many other units.

For Heavy support squads; missile launcher s are good because they get free flakk missiles now.  Lascannons are very good but you pay thru the nose for them. Autocannons are ok.  They have rending(6) now, but still cannot touch AV14 unless you are Iron warriors. Heavy Bolters are better than they were but Culverines do the same job with excellent ROI. If you are fortunate enough to be an Iron Warrior, heavy bolters with pinning is useful, but probably better acquired some other way.

The only weapons I'm unsure of are the multi-melta and the bigger volkite the support squads can take.

The MM gained twinlinked, but it's still heavy, and 24" range, with armourbane only out to 12".  So they are difficult to use.  Tho they will definitely create a bubble where enemy tanks don't want to go.

The other volkite is ok, it's basically just a weaker version of the Culverines and it's real benefit is that it won't eat up a heavy support slot.

 

So to narrow down to what I will probably take in support squads if/when I take any...

Missile Havocs, lascannon Havocs,

Rotor cannons, plasmaguns.

 

Everything else will come in on different units.

 

[Astartes Consul]

Have always loved the look of Rotor Cannons and have a few of the OG 'Legion Rotor Cannon' sets kicking about that I want to use. I'm going to assume that the maths checks out that you need at least ten marines to make the squad worthwhile though?

4 hours ago, Spagunk said:

Relentless heavy bolters are a pretty good deal since it remove the one bummer about heavy weapons. But you only get two of them in a squad of 10 so it may not be terribly worthwhile when you could just use a combi-weapon instead.

However it would look real sweet IMO. Heavy bolters are just iconic!

Guess in a Pride of the Legion list, when you're less reliant on Vet squads to do specialist things, that might be tempting. Obviously especially so if you player Imperial Fists!

[SkimaskMohawk]

3 hours ago, Canadian_F_H said:

Lascannons are very good but you pay thru the nose for them.

You honestly don't any more.

In 1st, 10 las HSS was 435. In 2nd, it's 275. And las got sunder. 

It's really hard to pack that many lascannons for the cost anywhere else; the only downside is that they're stationary, but is made irrelevant the way people barely hit 10% terrain coverage.

[Canadian_F_H]

15 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

You honestly don't any more.

In 1st, 10 las HSS was 435. In 2nd, it's 275. And las got sunder. 

It's really hard to pack that many lascannons for the cost anywhere else; the only downside is that they're stationary, but is made irrelevant the way people barely hit 10% terrain coverage.

Dang.  Are they that cheap now?  I might have been thinking of Havocs... (Edit) yeah, 10 Havocs with Lascannons is 385, and I'd probably pick up a few upgrades like Augury scanners at least.

I can see the mobility issue.  Locally we tend to use a lot more terrain I guess.  There have been a few games where if nobody leaves their DZ then nobody can make LoS.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Canadian_F_H

[SkimaskMohawk]

Arguably Havocs aren't worth their premium any more, at least not with lascannons. Equivalent points of HSS averages more hits, which is troubling. At least you can do autocannons for the same points.

And ya, imo tables should never just plop you in firing lanes.