Prot's 9th Ed Chaos Experience

[Prot]

So I usually start a thread based on the Legion I'm doing at the time, but in this case I honestly just don't know which one yet.

That being the case I am trying games right now, and will just put up some quick experiences in games, and maybe a few pictures.

Work has been pretty time consuming so for now these will be pretty brief with just an over view and perhaps some unit thoughts.

 

First up Iron Warriors:

Basic list:

- Warpsmith (relic Tendrils +1 to hit WL Trait)

- MoP (Cursed Earth, Healing power)

- Lord Discordant

- 

- 1 x 10 Legionaries w/Autocannon + H.Bolter. All bolters, MoT, Icon 

- 1 x 5 Legionaries w/Autocannon bolters. MoT

- 1 x 10 new Cultists

-1 x 10 old Cultists

- Helbrute MM

- Venomcrawler

- 4 x Spawn

-  5 Warp Talons

- Landraider

- 3 Oblits

- Havocs 4 x Chaincannon.

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Game: Can't remember the map; It was quarters deployment, and if you killed someone on their objective, I think you scored mission points.

I took basic secondaries in this one: Long War, Engage, and the one where you count up wounds.

My Opponent was Admech. He admittedly was afraid of taking too many powerful units, and did not go all out. He does however love those Dragoons and with good reason. I find them incredibly annoying.

- The Game: Admech go first, and we are on a fairly dense table with good, LoS blocking units. He has a TON of infantry so although it has a tremendous amount of 24" fire power, this actually helps me that he went first. He has 2 Laschickens, and Dune crawler tank, and the Plasma Breachers which CAN reach me.

- I lost a chunk of 3 wounds total off the Helbrute which I would heal. The Landraider didn't take anything, and the lighter shots that could reach my newer Cultists resulting in 3 deaths.

So if you do the math, you can guess he pretty much killed... nothing. I grew the 3 cultists back, healed the Helbrute, and went on my merry way.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

- His Dragoon hold center, and I move the force out, and the 10 Legionaries didn't have a lot of great shots, but those Autocanons add up. 

- The Warpsmith gives +1 to the Landraider and it wasn't overly impressive, because it turns out you still have to roll to hit and wound in this game.... however the real game changer here is the soulshatter lascannons. A single Lascannon getting through, unsaved is big and I roll a 4 + 2 = dead chicken.

- Oblits are in reserve, but there's not a great target for the Havocs, they stay in the Landraider. And there we have the turn... except for the Venomcrawler. He would zoom up, and then get into close combat (the Disco lord was behind, but not in range). The Venomcrawler killed a Dragoon, and damaged the next, but could not do much else. The Dragoon have this strat to explode their hits on 4+ I believe. That hurt... the Venomcrawler was half dead.

 

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- Mid game we are now fully involved. He has a ton of troops come on the board from the flank to take my opposite quarter, and there are 2 assaulty units in there. I do have my Spawn in that quarter but for now they are backed by old school cultists. Ouch. The Spawn were cool... they took a LOT of hits, and each squad finished, and I'd heal a Spawn back to full. However, it was more gimicky than anything. The Spawn all died with ease, and did their job.

- He firmly has that quarter, but his long range shooting can't really damage the Landraider, and the Legionaries are taking some shots, which is good, because I want my Cultists ignored for now. I lose a few random marines.

- Unfortunately the Venomcrawler would go first, kill 1.5 Dragoons, and then die to the single, remaining Dragoon. Very strange. Those Dragoons are so underrated I find.

- In my turn the Landraider had another squad of 3 Dragoons coming in hard to engage him on the other side of the ruins. I gave the Raider +1 to hit, pushed him into the foot print of the ruins to be able to shoot through it, and with a CP I managed to kill all 3 Dragoons. That bought me precious space.

- The Havocs would spill out, and just roast giant 20 man squad of Skitarii. No cover was HUGE in this matchup. His cover, and Shroud Psalm basically made my AP-1 really hurt.

- The Oblits came in and roasted all of his Plasma Breachers which were in cover. Just to the last wound, luckily.

- The area the spawn were killed was consumed with a lot of Skitarii, assault variants, and shooty types. I sent the full mutant Cultist horde in to take care of whatever the Legionaries could not bolter to death (+1 AP HUGE here thanks to MoT)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

End Game:

- Skipping to the end, I had my Landraider at full health again. The Disco Lord had helped to kill of 20 Skitarii, and cursed/engaged his Dune Crawler. The last Laschickens were finally killed by the Landraider.

- I did drop in the Warp Talons (I intended to use them to just force his deployment to be more conservative and score points) but they died to a hail of fire.

- My quarter was never threatened, but neither was his. We couldn't actually breach each others' home zone with any reliability. His attempt at my opposing quarter faultered at this point. The new Mutant Cultists were extremely fun, and one of the bigger stand outs to me.

- At this point, in Turn 4 we decided to call it as he just didn't have enough to push back here.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Conclusion:

- The IW felt good. Very fluffy, yet some fun tricks. Nothing felt crazy good. In fact the Oblits were only so-so to me. I find a general lack of any re-rolls, army wide, really made it harder to hit than I'm used to with a marine army.

- My opponent's army was admittedly not juiced up, so I take this with a grain of salt. Also the matchup to me, was something that favoured Iron Warriors: He had little in his list to threaten a Landraider. A TON of fun troops to halt close combat (he has tricks for this) but I'm not assaulting, and I took away his MUCH needed cover. This was in my favour for sure.

- My opponent was a good sport about it. We got try a few things out and I could see that Oblits maybe aren't as awesome as I hoped. The Multi-low end shot is amazing.... but so are Havocs. The Higher Strength/anti tank Oblit shots are... to be blunt, really swingy, and have a strong potential to do nothing. (D3 shots per model? That's pretty bad on such an expensive model)

- I did not get to use all my strats. But I will say the Legionaries were fun. I'm not sure if such a squad is truly competitive, but the combo with Iron Warriors of MoT is probably one of the better ones you are going to find (because we ignore cover). 

- The Helbrute in this list is solid. Not amazing, but he is my Warpsmith's body guard, and does a darn good job of it. 

- The new Cultists might be my favourite new unit. They are so much better and fun to play. Once they got into assault I was actually shocked at what they did. Granted, his stuff is T3, and 4+ save. But still. GW will sell lots of these.

So that's about it for that one.

I don't have time for the Red Corsairs game, but will be back to add that one to this thread.

 

[TrawlingCleaner]

Thanks for the write up, Prot! Did you feel the need to drop the -1 to Wound strat on the Landraider at all? At T9 it does seem like a bit of a waste!

How did the Lord Disco do too? They look markedly improved even though it'll take some getting used to for me as I keep thinking the +1 to hit is still an aura!

[Prot]

10 hours ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

Thanks for the write up, Prot! Did you feel the need to drop the -1 to Wound strat on the Landraider at all? At T9 it does seem like a bit of a waste!

How did the Lord Disco do too? They look markedly improved even though it'll take some getting used to for me as I keep thinking the +1 to hit is still an aura!

I have played 3 games now, no matter the results, I would say the Disco Lord is just solid. Very well pointed, and a great pair up with any daemon engine with assault capablity.

I never used the -1 to wound strat  on the Landraider. I would assess when it is going to be potentially targeted with something if I really think it will hit that 3-5 wound loss potential. Because I'm using the relic warpsmith, it gave me that extra padding, and it turned out I never needed it on the Landriader.

While I was hoping Termies would be better for Iron Warriors (I still think they're probably best with Red Corsairs) the Landriader seems to have found a home with the IW. :)

 

[Prot]

Unfortunately I kept wanting to do a larger couple of entries, but my games are far exceeding the time I have to report them, so quickly....

 

Red Corsiars game I won. I tried using Huron, and basic, fast troops, but it was a close win vs. SoB. The advance and charge I think is going to be one of the biggest red herrings of the codex. It's just a very obvious advantage, and it will need some real finesse to use correctly. I played White Scars for a long time, and trust me there are some armies you just don't want to get to quickly. :)

 

I think the reason I won the Corsairs game is I got my early scoring in, but I did get hammered by Retributors, as usual. And Vaul with a bunch of Sacresants and Paragon warsuits is just a nightmare to deal with. She had no problem annihilating my Possessed, and Venomcrawler.  I held them up as long as I could, and that's what it's about... scoring. 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Next I played my IW again. This time it turned out to be against Deathguard. Now in this case I knew I was probably going to lose. I think DG with AoC are incredibly underrated in Nephilim (just my opinion so far in these opening games.)

Sure enough I tried my dandiest to lay a whoopin on the plebs he pushed forward. Just the Terminators he had were impossible to shift. Without my IW having real access to MW's, I just couldn't shift the Blightlords enough with their obsec.

I made it close though. It was a 4 point game, but I did point out to my opponent.... or should I say I suggested he take a different secondary next time as he beat me with some fairly poor choices. 

The Lascannon Landraider continues to be such a fun choice. In this iteration of my army, I used the Noctilith Crown. It really didn't have any effect, but I think it did get me 2 CP back during the game. A fun, cool unit.

 

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+++++++++++++++ 

 

Next Up: Still undecided but I have a game coming up soon. I am still heavily favouring Black Legion. As mentioned I played them competitively so long when they stunk, and they are decent at a few things now. (I wouldn't take Abaddon for a while though.)

 

The one I really want to try is Emperor's Children (Just for killing in CC) and Night Lords. I think Night Lords have a lot of hate still and I've defended them as being very cagey, and having some great scoring capabilities. No, I don't think anyone is going to annihilate the meta with Night Lords, all I'm saying is they have some really fun aspects.

 

 

[Guzzlrr]

Thanks for your updates, Prot Creations of Bile seem like they could be powerful, Seen a list of that do Very well.

I quite Like the Red Corsair Trait, but you're probably right you would just adjust the threat range and plan accordingly, which I imagine can be quite frustrating, I will say Using Confluence of Traitors Red Corsairs is usually my go-to for that stratagem.

 

If I may be so bold, What do you think about obliterators ?

[TheWillTheWay]

This is great stuff. Can't wait to see what you think of EC.

 

[Prot]

13 hours ago, Crix said:

Thanks for the write ups Prot. Any thoughts on the Word Bearers?

 

Actually a good friend of mine has played Word Bearers for a long time on and off. So I'm not going to use them personally, but on the surface they seem like a top competitive choice just because their Chapter Trait is just so automatic for an assault legion, and the Dark Apostle is perhaps mid-to good with most legions, but jumps to almost 'auto-include' for the WB's.

I will be playing against them shortly I believe.

1 hour ago, TheWillTheWay said:

This is great stuff. Can't wait to see what you think of EC.

 

EC seem so good on paper. My issue is the forced mark thing (Which makes a lot of sense) but is still al limitation I'd expect to see with a true supplement. IE: Death Guard/World Eaters/Thousand Sons. 

What I like about EC is if you paint your army up accordingly, then they do seem to have a good synergy or look to play as CoB. 

I have to limit my choices though or I could be testing every chapter for months. :)

I won't play Alpha Legion but I'm hearing some great things about them. Listened to a podcast where a guy has gone 8-0 with them, including a RTT. 

I think that shows us that while there are 'good' legions, and maybe not so good legions, the core choices are there. A lot of lists will use similar (competitive) units and then I think we'll see some Legions just favour specialty items. Like BL/NL/AL with Jump pack units. RC's and bikers, etc.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Tomorrow I will probably play as Night Lords, EC or CoB. (No Khorne in my CoB though, as I'm getting tired of the "Khorne on the CoB" jokes!!!

 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Could you point me to said AL podcast?  Sounds right up my alley!

[Prot]

16 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

Could you point me to said AL podcast?  Sounds right up my alley!

Give this a shot. I agree with a lot of what he's saying... it's a matter of knowing your legion, a lot of good staple units will work anywhere.

 

 

[Prot]

Sorry for taking so long to actually add to this thread.

 

As I am still rotating a few of my favourite Chaos Legions, I had to skip a few batreps. I've been playing one off games lately against various opponents and I often just... make the list up on the fly since these games might be with  very little warning.

I've managed to eliminate Black Legion for now. Of all the games I've had, they've been the least fulfilling. I'm not using Abaddon and I know what the army is about, and I still think they have a few incredible choices for traits/WL gear and strats, but the rest are quite ordinary. We're seeing a lot of BL pop up and of course they all have Abaddon in them. I think if they boost him a good 30-50 points, we'll see a lot less BL armies. The rest seem to have a more dynamic playstyle to me.

Anyway, Iron Warriors have been alright, but not good. They get rated quite poorly by the internets wisdom! But who cares.... all I can say is I have felt a few distinct things happening in my games:

1. I am playing in a very 'fun' albeit trapped playstyle. I put on my IW hat, and out comes the Landraider, out comes the Oblits, and I'm in my happy place from the early 2000's wishing I had my Basilisk back! (I keep telling myself it's never coming back!). Anyway, that makes for lists that I feel very flavourful, but very poor in scoring Nephilim missions. 

2. Lack of new model syndrome. Lots of the Chaos codex is chalk full of fun assault units. Iron Warriors just don't leverage them as much as the others. So either I think you pick a specialty assault unit, and shoot it out. Or you pick an absolute BRICK of a unit (big Termie blob with all the fixin's), and you hack it out at mid table.

It's strange because while I feel the 'main units' in the codex are very wide spread and highly utilized in many of the Chaos Legions, perhaps IW's are the oddball here.

I'd like to take a second to say I think Night Lords are horribly underrated, and Alpha Legion is much better than they're getting credit for too. The Alpha have (to me) some of the most fun, and diverse ways of scoring, and playing the game. The problem with these 2 chapters is I can't spend that much more time playing 2 more legions on top of what I'm playing, and painting (have you seen my test mini's???)

On to Red Corsairs. 

So I think RC's are revered for all the wrong reasons. again as  White Scars player, it's a trap to go rushing in head first. Some armies just do not care if you get there first, it's what you do when you get there. Against certain armies the RC's are hard pressed to make a successful impact. Where I think the army is really fun, and actually has an edge is in the second part of the trait: double model count on objectives.

Without further ado, let's let me get this quick batrep out of the way:

My list:

HQ: Huron/DiscoLord/MoP

Troops: Accursed Cultists, Cultists, 3 Legionarie squads (one with Tome)

Elites: Possessed x 2.

Fast: 5 Bikers: MoK, Black Mace ( 2 combi melta's), Venom Crawler, Warp Talons.

Heavy: Havocs (4 lascannons). Maulerfiend

 

Word Bearers.

HQ: Dark Apostle, MoP

Troops: Culsts x2, Legonaries (Tome) x 2

Elite: Helbrute, Possessed, Termies x 5

Fast: Spawn x 5 (super annoying!), Warp Talons

Heavy: 2 Oblits, Predator Annihilator, Laser Vindicator Destroyer tank (HH).

 

Game:

I can't remember the mission. It was 5 objectives laid out in a cross pattern, and the deployment was Dawn of War.

He goes first, and my belief is he was too aggressive because he wants to get to the middle to do the Word Bearer's Secondary. I did take the RC's goofy secondary and only ended up getting it off 2 times in the game. 

As far as how it broke down, I took a picture in his Turn 2:

- Unfortunately some stuff is cut off. 

- His Helbrute got smoked by the Havocs with lascannons at first, but the bikers had turbo'd ahead, and hit him on 4's with the combi meltas, and finished it off.

- On the extreme left, although I have not liked Maulerfiends to date, this one got lucky, ended up killing his Laser Vindicator take in the upper left corner of the picture. 

- Meanwhile my first Possessed squad had a great advance roll and cleaned out all but one of his Accursed Cultists, which later in game would allow them to fly up the table and tap his Predator in close combat. I screwed up here and thought the tank was T7 and just killed it, so we were going to put it back on the table, but he refused to.... I said he could have done damage with Soulshatter lascannons but he felt it was pointless with only 2-3 wounds left...

- He makes a weird choice at center. His Warp Talons went and clobbered my Accursed Cultists, this freed up my Disco Lord, but to be honest, I could not kill his stupid Rhino with a Disco lord, and Venom Crawler!!! It walked away, and then I had my hands full with those 5 SPAWN! I used them with my Iron Warriors, and I forgot how incredibly annoying they are now (and with AoC!) His Spawn would kill my Venomcrawler and put my DIscoLord down to 2 wounds! (with some help). (#3 in Green)

- After my bikers finished off his Helbrute (missing from picture upper left building archway), the bikers then assaulted the Tome toting Legionaries avoiding the Dark Apostle. I somehow killed all but 1 legionarie. The last one ran. 

- #2 in Green. My possessed would hit his Possessed, but I went first of course, and barely got them down to 2 models from 5. I had to use the assistance of the free bikers here to finally kill the last one. Then together, the bikers, and last 2 possessed would work over the Oblits (one left at 1 wound). But the master of possession would be defenseless here and would die as well.

- He had the middle, so I eventually pull out my Legionaire squad with Tome, MoS, (Delightful agonies in effect), Fist, and Heavy Axe, and go charging into his  5 Warp Talons. I actually over killed them to my surprise. And although he had more models on the objective, this is where the Red Corsairs effect kicks in and I double my model count before he can score.

- #4 Green. On that objective we had the most lethargic fight you've ever seen... and I was okay with that. Because until turn 3, he only killed one marine, and even when he got his obsec marines on the objective my 4 Legionaries become "8" obsec models and I kept scoring this for 2-3 turns. Then to the right (off picture) he gets his Terminators in . There just was no good spot for them, and they just boltered a few Cultists I was using as a deep strike screen.

 

By turn 4 the game was very lopsided. It did start out looking like it would be close. I will confess my opponent is very new to the codex. I repeatedly (and I do mean 3+ times) to be careful that I could advance/assault. I don't think he thought much of it, until he realized he would not be able to score objectives.

The game was a blast though. each swing in CC seemed to tilt the game. The Word Bearers re-rolling everything, even the Spawn, in Close Combat was gross. I think if he would have simply 'staged' in turn 1 rather than being so aggressive and giving me so many models to 'climb up' on to, then he could have won easily. His firepower was shut down early and it did scare me a bit. Those laser Vindicators are flat 6 damage. (My Maulerfiend was down to 1-2 wounds). His Oblits just didn't have a chance to get a good target and only had one round of shooting. 

Post game thoughts:

- Loved the bikers this time. Probably my best outing with them to date.

- I don't think Legionaries work very well with Iron Warriors, but they are excellent with RC's. I really liked just going for the obectives.

- Move/Shoot/Move with the Havocs made them nearly unkillable as I kept them close to a sealed ruin wall. They really didn't do anything to be honest, but it was a constant threat and shut down a lane of travel.

I don't think I played the game very smart. I just wanted to see what would happen if I simply engaged his army on as many fronts as early as possible and in a weird way I think it threw him off. He wasn't really able to get buffs on units he wanted and he was entangled on too many fronts in his zone.

Anyway, it was a fun game for sure. 

Next up... I face off against Custodes.

[Kythnos]

4 hours ago, Prot said:

1. I am playing in a very 'fun' albeit trapped playstyle. I put on my IW hat, and out comes the Landraider, out comes the Oblits, and I'm in my happy place from the early 2000's wishing I had my Basilisk back!

Hi Prot, thanks as always for taking the time to share your experiences. As an IW player I am particularly interested in your opinion regarding Obliterators. A lot of people online don't seem to be fond of them, but I get the impression from your posts that you are quite pleased with them. Could you elaborate on them a bit?

[Prot]

15 hours ago, Kythnos said:

Hi Prot, thanks as always for taking the time to share your experiences. As an IW player I am particularly interested in your opinion regarding Obliterators. A lot of people online don't seem to be fond of them, but I get the impression from your posts that you are quite pleased with them. Could you elaborate on them a bit?

Well first off as I admitted, I am in my old head space or glory days for the Iron Warriors. I don't think they are costed very well, and I don't think with our heavy choices they easily crack the top 3 choices we can make.

That being said, I think I found some ways to squeeze a little more utility out of the unit for my IW's. A lot of people will disagree, and I'm okay with that. I kind of like using an army that is not highly revered and try to squeeze what I can out of it.

In this case I'll skip the cons for Oblits as there are many. The pro's for me include  an MoP for bringing them back from the dead. With terminators and bikes I think there is a valid argument for which is more important. However I realized I was playing Oblits like I used to before this codex. IE: Purely shooty. I stopped doing that, and they literally act as a body guard for the Warpsmith... I am far more aggressive with them now.

Secondly I almost always just use the low level shooting. Every single time I use the anti-tank shot, I regret it. I just used it last night again, and it failed me miserably. So with that in mind I love using our little tricks like "Tank Destroyers" in conjunction with the Oblits is a nice little way of getting some extra use... things like that combined with no cover helps a bit. It's more or less playing with them enough to really get the most from them. 

[Prot]

Okay so my last 'experimental' game before just trying to stick with Iron Warrirors:

 

I tried Emperor's Children out. I won't go into great details but it's worth mentioning because I think there were a few big talking points. 

- First off I faced off against Custodes and I know they're tough, and great at CC, but wow they held their own against what I consider a VERY potent EC list. That said he took strong choices too, except he watered his list down with a Landraider!

- I did win by 8 points. Super close. Some things that surprised me:

- Virtus bikers are still crazy good. I know this army well, and they always do well, but at one point I took a 5 man, juiced up, Possessed squad into 5 bikers, with S6 T6, Delightful Agonies, exploding 6's, charged, and killed 1.5 bikes and lost all but the Champ in return.

- The paltry damage of Chaos (overall it is 2 damage) is felt in this match up. I badly needed Lucius to perform, however, Lucius died... without getting to swing!!! My damage phase capped D.P. did a lot of heavy lifting.

The death of Lucius was a weird moment. We didn't know how to handle a few moments so I'll put the scenario's out here and you tell me what you think:.

Scenario 1:

Custodes turn: Shield Captain on Bike, and 4 Terminators charge  my Oblits, and Daemon Prince. Lucius Heroically Intervenes. Shield Captain Points at Lucius, and says " You fight last". Lucius points at the Shield Captain and also gives him Fights Last.

Who goes first? (keep in mind all my units are Slaanesh marked (except Oblits) . (what happened here is his termies fought first overall, kiled lucius.)

 

Scenario 2:

Custodes Turn: Allarus Terminators charge my Chosen and my Legionaries. Everyone has Fights First. What order should we have activated?

 

Scenario 3:

He has that Blade Champion (I think it's called) with Fights First. He charges into my Slaneesh marked Legionaries. And I charged him in my turn. We really didn't know if the Blade Champion essentially having Fights First (twice when he charges) meant anything? 

That was a little hard for us to muddle through and we had pretty much a different scenario like that every turn!

Edited August 25, 2022 by Prot

[Kythnos]

On 8/23/2022 at 5:25 PM, Prot said:

Well first off as I admitted, I am in my old head space or glory days for the Iron Warriors. I don't think they are costed very well, and I don't think with our heavy choices they easily crack the top 3 choices we can make.

That being said, I think I found some ways to squeeze a little more utility out of the unit for my IW's. A lot of people will disagree, and I'm okay with that. I kind of like using an army that is not highly revered and try to squeeze what I can out of it.

In this case I'll skip the cons for Oblits as there are many. The pro's for me include  an MoP for bringing them back from the dead. With terminators and bikes I think there is a valid argument for which is more important. However I realized I was playing Oblits like I used to before this codex. IE: Purely shooty. I stopped doing that, and they literally act as a body guard for the Warpsmith... I am far more aggressive with them now.

Secondly I almost always just use the low level shooting. Every single time I use the anti-tank shot, I regret it. I just used it last night again, and it failed me miserably. So with that in mind I love using our little tricks like "Tank Destroyers" in conjunction with the Oblits is a nice little way of getting some extra use... things like that combined with no cover helps a bit. It's more or less playing with them enough to really get the most from them. 

Thanks for sharing this, Prot. This gives me some ideas how to use my own Oblits as well. I really like the models and, as a long-time IW player, running Oblits is part of the deal. My first game with the new codex, I did not include any, but will do so in my next one for sure.

How are you dealing with the unit's really low speed when using them as bodyguards? I consider them too expensive for deepstriking and missing a turn. Or am I judging this wrong?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

There was some guidance put out by GW (don't think it was called an FAQ, but it was that type of document) early on in 9th ed. which clarified how such effects were handled.  Helpfully, it classified fight speeds into 3 categories, regardless of the wording of the individual power or ability that altered the fight speed.  I would link it, but GW's FAQ page seems to be currently down.

They are as follows:

1.  Fights first

2.  Fights normal (either have no effect that changes when they fight, or subject to both fights first and fights last).

3. Fights last

Additional instances of fights first or fights last on 1 unit are ignored - so a unit that has 2 effects that make it fight first attacks at the same speed as a unit that only has that fight speed from one source (so there is no "fights firstest" that goes before other fights first), and a unit that has 2 effect of fight first and 1 of fights last still goes at normal speed.

 

1.  When you have multiple units that fight first, the players alternate between activating "fights first" units, starting with the player whose turn it is.

2.  When you have multiple units that fight at normal speed, the players alternate between activating their units, starting with the player whose turn it isn't.

3.  When you have multiple units that fight last, it works the same as fights first - the player whose turn it is gets to chose first

 

This is actually set out in the rulebook - the additional document just did 3 things: it explained the order of resolution in a way that was easier to follow, it simplified that there were only 3 fight speeds and it FAQed what happened when subject to both fights first and last, or have multiple instances of one or the other (or both).

For each of your scenarios, I'm assuming that the described units are the only ones fighting that turn.

So, for scenario 1, assuming no units destroyed, the order of the fight would be 1) opponent's terminators (his turn, fights first) 2) your demon prince (his turn, fights first), 3) then Lucius (hits turn, has both fights first and last) or oblits (has nothing affecting order), 4) opponent's captain (his turn, has both fights first and last), 5) whichever of Lucius or Oblits you didn't activate earlier.

For scenario 2, with everything fighting first, your opponent (it being his turn) would activate his terminators, then your 2 units would go.

For scenario 3, its  bit difficult to understand what is occurring as you describe both his and your units charging.  That said, given that multiple instances of fights first are ignored, given that everyone fights first, on his turn his champion would go first as he charged and he activates first as it is his turn, on yours your legionaires would go first as you activate first on your turn.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Prot]

Sorry about scenario 3. That is confusing. My real issue in scenario 3 is the fact the Blade Master gets Fights first from a power, and then Fights first from charging. But you answered this by stating there is no such thing as 'fights first-ist'.

 

For scenario 1: 

2 hours ago, Prot said:

Scenario 1:

Custodes turn: Shield Captain on Bike, and 4 Terminators charge  my Oblits, and Daemon Prince. Lucius Heroically Intervenes. Shield Captain Points at Lucius, and says " You fight last". Lucius points at the Shield Captain and also gives him Fights Last.

Who goes first? (keep in mind all my units are Slaanesh marked (except Oblits) . (what happened here is his termies fought first overall, kiled lucius.)

 

You answered:

37 minutes ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

So, for scenario 1, assuming no units destroyed, the order of the fight would be 1) opponent's terminators (his turn, fights first) 2) your demon prince (his turn, fights first), 3) then Lucius (hits turn, has both fights first and last) or oblits (has nothing affecting order), 4) opponent's captain (his turn, has both fights first and last), 5) whichever of Lucius or Oblits you didn't activate earlier.

So with the Oblits not having fights first, and Lucius having Fights Last and Fights First,  I just wanted to be sure of the reasoning here. (I thought fights last superseded fights first on Lucius, thus putting him behind Oblits which would be 'fights normal'?

Also wouldn't the Shield Captain on bike (Fights first/Fights last) go before Lucius (Fights First/Fights Last) because it's the Custodes player's turn? (I actually had the Oblits going before both the Shield Capt, and Lucius since they are 'normal' and the other two in question have 'Fights Last'.)

Edited August 25, 2022 by Prot

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Fights last doesn't supersede fights first, they cancel each other out so that the unit goes at "normal" speed.  So, in scenario 1 there were 3 units fighting at normal speed - Lucius and the Captain from having both fights first and fights last, and the obliterators from having neither.

While for fights first and fights last, the activating of units starts with the player whose turnit is, it's the opposite for fights normal.  That's why one of either your oblits or Lucius would have gone before the Captain.

 

The FAQs seem to be back up, at least on the British website - its in the Designer's commentary to the 40K rulebook - https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/OQ1TeUZ6hxw5jp1e.pdf

Edited August 25, 2022 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Prot]

Okay that makes sense. Thanks for the link.