What happened to loyalists from traitor legions?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The ones that weren’t murdered almost immediately any way.

[Helias_Tancred]

Some joined up with loyalist marines, some became Knights-Errant, but its been largely left undocumented. I'm sure if there ever is a more detailed history written about the existing space marine chapters I would bet a few were founded by loyalist survivors of traitor legions?

 

 

[MasterOfAardvarks]

While I don't believe it has been outright stated, the 2nd and 11th Legionnes were supposedly absorbed into the Ultramarines, and remaining loyalists from traitor chapters were either absorbed in a similar manner, or formed into chapters of their own, this is hinted to be the origin of the Blood Ravens. Also, some Chapters are believed to have been founded using traitor geneseed, notably the Minotaurs (Iron Warriors or World Eaters), Carcharadons (Night Lords), and the Sons of the Pheonix (Emperor's Children).

[No Foes Remain]

There was one Death Guard loyalist, Crysos Morturg, who went on to command the 108th Independent Company after the Heresy. They operated out of Occludus (which would later become the homeworld of the Death Specters) which served as a monitoring station on the edge of the Ghoul Stars.

The number 108 means that there are at least 107 other indepenent companies who are most likely made up of loyalist from traitor legions. They'd probably have a wide range of sizes, with some being a few squads to some being a few hundred strong, depending on their task and location and - more that likely - would have probably been slowly whittled down by combat losses as I doubt they'd be allow to actively recruit new Astartes. If anything they would most likely be given reinforcements or served until a later founding chapter came along and took over their job. After which they'd just find battles and wars to help and eventually die in.

[Karhedron]

It varied. The Legions that sided with Horus used Istvaan III to purge the Loyalists from their ranks (or suspected Loyalists). Nathaniel Garro escaped the Istvaan system with a contingent of loyal Death Guard aboard the Eisenstein. The exploits of a handful of Loyalists from traitor legions imprisoned on Terra are covered in the Outcast Dead. Barthusa Narek of the Word Bearers teamed up with Eldrad Ulthran to kill the members of the Cabal who hopped to destroy humanity to wipe out Chaos. He was last seen setting out to try and assassinate Lorgar with a Fulgarite shard.

[MegaVolt87]

Q- What happened to loyalists from traitor legions?

A- What happened with such forces-

- Folded into or made loyalist chapters at first founding (Silver Skulls, Doom Eagles, Space Sharks etc)

- Still renegade (Ashen Claws)

- Eventually fall to chaos/ affiliate with old Legion as independent Warband/ re-join old legion. 

[sitnam]

I’d note that the Carcarodons are suspected to not be purely traitor geneseed, but chimeric with a heavy leaning towards Raven Guard. Ashen Claws are Raven Guard descendants from what I recall

We don’t have a definitive answer, but it is hinted with several chapters. My assumption is that several were founded with traitor loyalists remnants rolled in with loyalists. 

[Felix Antipodes]

10 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

There was one Death Guard loyalist, Crysos Morturg, who went on to command the 108th Independent Company after the Heresy. They operated out of Occludus (which would later become the homeworld of the Death Specters) which served as a monitoring station on the edge of the Ghoul Stars.

The number 108 means that there are at least 107 other indepenent companies who are most likely made up of loyalist from traitor legions. They'd probably have a wide range of sizes, with some being a few squads to some being a few hundred strong, depending on their task and location and - more that likely - would have probably been slowly whittled down by combat losses as I doubt they'd be allow to actively recruit new Astartes. If anything they would most likely be given reinforcements or served until a later founding chapter came along and took over their job. After which they'd just find battles and wars to help and eventually die in.

Can you tell me where this was published?  Not doubting or snarking; just sounds interesting and I don’t recall reading it in the past.

[SickSix]

On 7/10/2022 at 12:26 PM, MasterOfAardvarks said:

While I don't believe it has been outright stated, the 2nd and 11th Legionnes were supposedly absorbed into the Ultramarines, and remaining loyalists from traitor chapters were either absorbed in a similar manner, or formed into chapters of their own, this is hinted to be the origin of the Blood Ravens. Also, some Chapters are believed to have been founded using traitor geneseed, notably the Minotaurs (Iron Warriors or World Eaters), Carcharadons (Night Lords), and the Sons of the Pheonix (Emperor's Children).

PLEASE Stop spreading the patently false rumor about the Ultramarines and the lost legions. Even the author that wrote the infamous dialogue had to come out and say that it was just bitter Word Bearers talking smack about their hated brothers. There was no basis for it.

 

As for the chapters you mentioned, yes, it is "hinted at" that some chapters may have questionable foundings.

[Felix Antipodes]

@SickSix see the HH short Chamber at the End of Memory by James Swallow.  I said much the same in another thread before seeing this story.

[Xenith]

Well, according to the new timeline, I think in White Dwarf, the Dark Angels killed a whole bunch of loyalists left in the galactic south, those that made it to terra were probably shot out of the sky or absorbed into the defences and died, many probably went off into space out of shame. Guilliman though, was seen to place a lot of stock in true loyalists like Dantioch, so one can imagine a lenient approach - penitent crusade and/or name changes, or re-assignment to other chapters. 

[Karhedron]

47 minutes ago, Felix Antipodes said:

@SickSix see the HH short Chamber at the End of Memory by James Swallow.  I said much the same in another thread before seeing this story.

Agreed, ADB originally intended it to be baseless speculation but James Swallow effectively canonised it.

Also the Fists absorbed some too, not just the UMs. Some people have interpreted that as giving extra meaning to Dorn's "You are not my son!" line to Sigismund as well as explaining the very different temperament of the Black Templars to the other IF successor chapters. Personally I think that is a stretch but it is interesting speculation.

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

Some people have interpreted that as giving extra meaning to Dorn's "You are not my son!" line to Sigismund as well as explaining the very different temperament of the Black Templars to the other IF successor chapters. Personally I think that is a stretch but it is interesting speculation.

Some people like to tie everything into everything else with neat little bows. It is the Saturday Morning Cartoon Syndrome.

People will take little snippets of lore and extrapolate that to encompass a wide range of canon. That just makes the universe smaller.

[No Foes Remain]

On 7/11/2022 at 5:21 AM, Felix Antipodes said:

Can you tell me where this was published?  Not doubting or snarking; just sounds interesting and I don’t recall reading it in the past.

Sorry, didn't see your reply until now. Crysos Morturg first appears in the Betrayal book (1st HH book from FW, now OOP) and then the Independent company part comes from Retribution (6th HH book from FW, also OOP).

 

Added excerpt from book 6 below in the spoiler.

Spoiler

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by No Foes Remain
Added info

[Xenith]

15 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

Added excerpt from book 6 below in the spoiler.

  Hide contents

 

Alpha Legion for sure  we know Alan Blight had a soft spot for them!

Edited July 20, 2022 by Xenith

[Lemondish]

It's a pity they didn't just retire. Hang up the armour and become a particularly hard working farmer that occasionally brews ales for the village, raises livestock (that he names after old squad mates), and wins dart tournaments. I'd watch a Warhammer+ series on that guy. 

After all, the universe is a massive place. There has to be at least one Marine that, instead of turning traitor, just uses it as an exit to disappear and open a small business gastropub.

 

[Gederas]

On 7/21/2022 at 12:26 PM, Lemondish said:

It's a pity they didn't just retire. Hang up the armour and become a particularly hard working farmer that occasionally brews ales for the village, raises livestock (that he names after old squad mates), and wins dart tournaments. I'd watch a Warhammer+ series on that guy. 

After all, the universe is a massive place. There has to be at least one Marine that, instead of turning traitor, just uses it as an exit to disappear and open a small business gastropub.

Some Fallen have tried that. Which honestly begs the question how they can simply just "blend in" with normal society seeing as how Astartes at 7"+ tall and built like a walking tank

[Jamafore]

On 7/19/2022 at 6:29 AM, Karhedron said:

Agreed, ADB originally intended it to be baseless speculation but James Swallow effectively canonised it.

Also the Fists absorbed some too, not just the UMs. Some people have interpreted that as giving extra meaning to Dorn's "You are not my son!" line to Sigismund as well as explaining the very different temperament of the Black Templars to the other IF successor chapters. Personally I think that is a stretch but it is interesting speculation.

 

I actually more took that as a halfway explanation for the Soul Drinkers than anything having to do with the Black Templars

[Lemondish]

On 7/24/2022 at 6:23 PM, Gederas said:

Some Fallen have tried that. Which honestly begs the question how they can simply just "blend in" with normal society seeing as how Astartes at 7"+ tall and built like a walking tank

They probably hide by living like Riddick. 

[Karhedron]

On 7/24/2022 at 11:23 PM, Gederas said:

Some Fallen have tried that. Which honestly begs the question how they can simply just "blend in" with normal society seeing as how Astartes at 7"+ tall and built like a walking tank

People can get genetic enhancements and humanity is more diverse in the 41st millennium with abhumans like Squats (LoV) and Ogryns wandering around.

"Say, aren't you are a bit big for a farmer?"

"I was born on a high gravity moon. If you think I am big, you should have met my brother"

[MegaVolt87]

19 hours ago, Karhedron said:

People can get genetic enhancements and humanity is more diverse in the 41st millennium with abhumans like Squats (LoV) and Ogryns wandering around.

"Say, aren't you are a bit big for a farmer?"

"I was born on a high gravity moon. If you think I am big, you should have met my brother"

 

Also would have cut out their Astartes tatto's like Russel Crowe in Gladiator. 

[Chaplain Mollusc]

On 7/10/2022 at 11:26 AM, No Foes Remain said:

The number 108 means that there are at least 107 other indepenent companies who are most likely made up of loyalist from traitor legions.

MI-6 would like a word, frater. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Grey Knights were founded by traitors.