Experiences with Warzone Nephilim/balanced Dataslate?

[domsto]

Hello fellow Guardsmen

 

Does anybody already has some Games under his belt using the newest CA Nephilim book and Balanced Dataslate?

Here where i live Covid start to rise again so who knows when i can test all the new Rules myselfe.

I think the new CP Rules really hurt Guard as we are very dependent on pre-game CP, also our stronges Abillitys are locked behind the CP paywall.

On the other hand our new Secondarys are all amazing, they all seem like no-brainers and easy to max out by simply playing Guard as Guard should be played.

Only weak link i can see is the Command Squad for "inflexible Command" as the Range for counting in range of an Officer depends on them. And we are talking about 4 Dudes with T3 and 5+Sv. Every Enemy can kill them easily and break the Chain and therefore our scoring.

I am unsure if the newest Buffs we got throw CA and Balanced Dataslate finally pushes Guard back on the competetive Level, but the direction is right so far. 

[Hiroitchi]

Now I can’t say much for other people’s experience because I heavily play Armor. Even before the dataslate and nephilim I was running 9x Leman Russ Tanks, 1x Tank Commander, and a super heavy. To me the data slate has greatly improved my Cadian armored tank lists in terms  of letting me destroy a unit and survive long enough to destroy to do so. Getting AoC and 2+ effectively allows me the chance to survive a hit by a melta like weapon.

However, since this is 9th and and 9th is a scoring game its somewhat difficult to win the scoring game against hordes and faster armies. These days I’m playing with 5x Super Heavies and I have lost each game so far due to points, but I manage to table my opponent.

 Your concern for lack of CP is justified, but it also limits your opponent to spamming strategems too. It’s nice to earn CP, feels good during the game and kinda makes you forget that overall you have about 1 less CP that you did previously.

 

[TCC]

Played 5 games, won 5 games. Playing two more this week. The secondaries are great for getting high scores. AoC is amazing and so is the +2 on super heavies. Doomhammer is now viable and helps with the secondaries (takes infantry off the board to help with inflexible command. Creed is a go to to gain CP and works with inflexible command, bring a command squad with standard too. The reduction in CP is not hampering my play style - I aim to start with 5 or 6 and think the Kurov’s Aquila is a must spend, it gets back more than it costs most games.

[dees]

My two games have been against White Scars and Death Guard, and I ended up narrowly winning both.  I gained ground and points towards the end of the games instead of loosing them, which is a new thing for me.  The CP restriction sucks in a lot of ways, but it does effect your opponent too, but often to a lesser extent.  The AoC does help but I'm not sure just how much.  It should let our tanks take 3 or 4 more anti-tank shots before they go down if I did the math right, but I don't know if that works out on the table.  The point changes and new rules like HotE and us not being penalized for indirect fire really helped in those games, especially against the DG.  The secondary objective change look good, but I tend to loose site of them which is where I need to improve the most.    

[Emperor Ming]

I lost horrifically vs eldar the other day, the new engagement range change for area terrain, isn't fun for guard 20-90 (and ofc 10 of those points are for painted)

Hammer of the Emp feels like a gimmick, it sometimes does something

Aoc didn't do much vs mass bright lances. All my usual 3 tank commanders were dead by turn 3

Over a few games, I tried the new secondaries, don't like expunge as its rather convoluted and while it can score higher than RND, RND is easier to score, then I should have tried banners as well. shame its all shadow operations 

Inflexible command, keeping everyone under officers is more difficult than you think, esp with reserves and transports its a very strange secondary

Since you cant score boots in turn 1, that's rather odd as well 

I'm not taken on our faction secondaries at all 

Glad some people have had victories, hope springs eternal

 

[TCC]

I read this on another forum, 2 weeks in and figures taken from GT’s with the new rules: Guard hit 43%, which is a big improvement. 

[The Pounder]

Fair play TCC! I have played vs Space Wolves and T’au and lost them both! 
 

Against the Wolves I lost by 1 but against T’au I got completely owned!

 I’m going to tweak my list (sad to see the Macharius go but needs must) I’ll be adding 2 more artillery pieces and 20 more infantry.

I have to get better at scoring but practice is needed.

[TCC]

Played a tailored Blood Angles list tonight, the Death Company pre game moved then T1 charged the Doomhammer and did 30 wounds (thunder hammers) destroying it, I was on the back foot after that and just could not score on the primaries - I had to redeploy troops and tanks to remove them from my lines instead of advancing the objectives. It was a fun game. 100 to 67

Edited July 14, 2022 by TCC

[jarms48]

I just don’t take relics or WLT’s now. Might give 2 TC’s tank aces if I’m taking them. That’s about it. 
 

Detachments are:

- Guard Brigade and Battalion

- Guard Brigade and Scion Patrol

- Triple Scion Battalion

 

Those are the 3 I go between now. 

[Emperor Ming]

My main conundrum, that I don't even know how they are going to solve, is:

Guard survivability on objectives, even 30 guys on an objective is easily swept away by most factions

 

[domsto]

12 hours ago, TCC said:

I read this on another forum, 2 weeks in and figures taken from GT’s with the new rules: Guard hit 43%, which is a big improvement. 

Could you please share the Link to the Forum?

43% is still terrifyingly low but better as the 26% we sat at before

So to conclude so far

Guard got a bit better but it seems that still every Game is a uphill battle right from the start

[TCC]

6 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

My main conundrum, that I don't even know how they are going to solve, is:

Guard survivability on objectives, even 30 guys on an objective is easily swept away by most factions

 

This is where waves of guardsmen come in and the 100+ infantry models people take.

[TCC]

1 hour ago, domsto said:

Could you please share the Link to the Forum?

43% is still terrifyingly low but better as the 26% we sat at before

So to conclude so far

Guard got a bit better but it seems that still every Game is a uphill battle right from the start

Link it’s early days and I think people are still getting used to the new secondaries. It may improve over time or dive of as other factions find ways to counter us. 

[TCC]

9 hours ago, Jud Cottrell said:

Fair play TCC! I have played vs Space Wolves and T’au and lost them both! 
 

Against the Wolves I lost by 1 but against T’au I got completely owned!

 I’m going to tweak my list (sad to see the Macharius go but needs must) I’ll be adding 2 more artillery pieces and 20 more infantry.

I have to get better at scoring but practice is needed.

I have been testing out playing a tight game now due to the secondaries, this means I don’t go across the halfway point (most of the time) and I aim to hold 2-3 objectives that are in my area - often loose and give up the centre objective until I can clear it for the infantry. It can translate to min 3 points for inflexible command and if my standard is still alive 2/3 points for the boots each turn. I’m also using banners but at best I’m getting up to 10 points per game here, any suggestions on that third secondary to score higher are welcome. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by TCC

[Emperor Ming]

I dunno about the 100+ guys makes any difference, I used eldar vs my mates guard, he had 10 squads with two 30 units of conscripts, and by turn 3 they were mostly all dead. its just so easy to take an objective from guard its laughable 

Playing as guard, I tried holding an obj with bullgryns, which was with mixed success, the main issue is not obsec and 8 is the same as 30 inf, now that gear is free its hard to say which is better probably the guard as 3 squads can be in 3 places

[SteveAntilles]

I finally got a game in last night, fought those sneaky knife ears. 
HoE was awesome. Autowounding on 6's was soooo satisfying.

AoC saved my tanks several times. They felt tough. Hellhounds survived with just enough wound to get into their lines, and explode in chain reactions. I killed more Wraithguard with exploding tanks than I did with Inferno Cannons, lol.

I ended up winning by 9 points, and it felt like a close game the whole time. Also free lascannons are awesome.

[TCC]

On 7/14/2022 at 12:24 PM, Emperor Ming said:

I dunno about the 100+ guys makes any difference, I used eldar vs my mates guard, he had 10 squads with two 30 units of conscripts, and by turn 3 they were mostly all dead. its just so easy to take an objective from guard its laughable 

Playing as guard, I tried holding an obj with bullgryns, which was with mixed success, the main issue is not obsec and 8 is the same as 30 inf, now that gear is free its hard to say which is better probably the guard as 3 squads can be in 3 places

I find it often better to have two squads of 10 on an objective than one squad of conscripts and this is because one squad of conscripts can be wiped in melee in one turn by a unit of enemy. But if there were two squads of 10 spaced out enough, only one of them gets wiped and the other gets tangled in the consolidation but you still hold the objective due to obsec. I’m going to try some games out without the conscripts going forward (just need to finish painting my squad up to replace them).

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 7/13/2022 at 10:53 PM, domsto said:

Could you please share the Link to the Forum?

43% is still terrifyingly low but better as the 26% we sat at before

So to conclude so far

Guard got a bit better but it seems that still every Game is a uphill battle right from the start

Terrifyingly low? 43% is definitely not great but 50% is a 50-50 chance of winning, so while it’s low, I think terrifyingly low is a bit alarmist.

[TCC]

On 7/13/2022 at 4:01 PM, TCC said:

I read this on another forum, 2 weeks in and figures taken from GT’s with the new rules: Guard hit 43%, which is a big improvement. 

More data from recent GT’s. 

 

[Emperor Ming]

In order for nid winrate to drop, hive fleet leviathan trait needs nerfing, when 99.9% of nid players are taking it you would think they would cotton on

Nice to see all guard bolt on rules are doing little to improve things

[TCC]