Liber Obscurus (Blackshields, M & C, Solar Aux, SL, AoDC V1.5 Release) - Unofficial

[TheTrans]

Liber Obscurus V1.5

Liber Obscurus/Balance Pass Feedback

Heya gang,

For those not on the book of faces I've just kicked out Liber Obscurus v1.2. 

These are just some get you by rules until GW decies to hit us up with some actual rules for a heap of the player base.

So far it's got:
Blackshields

Militia & Cults

Solar Aux

Shattered Legions

Army of Dark Compliance

I'll probably start on 'todes or Daemons next as I feel we can wait the month for Mech to drop (and there may be a pdf in the wild already).

 

If there are any issues (balance, spelling, just foolish moves) please hit me up and I'll chuck them in an update!

Again this isn't official etc etc, play what you want etc etc, just here for those without Marine armies to actually try out 2.0!

Edited August 15, 2022 by TheTrans
Title amended

[Harrowmaster]

Great work, the book looks stunning and the rules have been translated really well

[TheTrans]

16 hours ago, Harrowmaster said:

Great work, the book looks stunning and the rules have been translated really well

Thanks mate, hopefully allows some people to limp across the line until we get rules for non marines...at some point...in the future...

 

[Harrowmaster]

12 hours ago, TheTrans said:

Thanks mate, hopefully allows some people to limp across the line until we get rules for non marines...at some point...in the future...

 

You're very welcome. Tbh given it's a near direct port of the 1.0 rules it may well still see use once we get the official stuff. The mention of PDF rules for militia gives me a feeling that it might just be that and given how some of the pdfs have turned out it could be gutted. 

[Noserenda]

Good stuff, could Talons go first? At least the cool bit, dont worry about the banana boys :P 

[TheTrans]

2 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Good stuff, could Talons go first? At least the cool bit, dont worry about the banana boys :P 

Thanks mate, the sisters are by far the cooler models haha. I've got a mate running an event in september, so just seeing if Daemons or Talons have more players and I'll do that one first haha. 

9 hours ago, Harrowmaster said:

You're very welcome. Tbh given it's a near direct port of the 1.0 rules it may well still see use once we get the official stuff. The mention of PDF rules for militia gives me a feeling that it might just be that and given how some of the pdfs have turned out it could be gutted. 

Yeah I just shimmied it across from what we got and massaged bits here and there to make it fit in better with 2.0. I kept most of the points the same or took guidance from what we've seen in the liber books. Yeah the PDF for militia and cults worries me given the travesty that is the Legacy PDF. 

For those interested also did a Legacies pdf pass (file is in the folder with Liber Obscurus) to try and bring a few things more into line with what they have been (Guard-based super heavies priced appropriately, Caestus being able to ram and hold 10 termies etc).

[Harrowmaster]

10 hours ago, TheTrans said:

Thanks mate, the sisters are by far the cooler models haha. I've got a mate running an event in september, so just seeing if Daemons or Talons have more players and I'll do that one first haha. 

Yeah I just shimmied it across from what we got and massaged bits here and there to make it fit in better with 2.0. I kept most of the points the same or took guidance from what we've seen in the liber books. Yeah the PDF for militia and cults worries me given the travesty that is the Legacy PDF. 

For those interested also did a Legacies pdf pass (file is in the folder with Liber Obscurus) to try and bring a few things more into line with what they have been (Guard-based super heavies priced appropriately, Caestus being able to ram and hold 10 termies etc).

I would very much like to be proved wrong about the militia but there's no way og knowing. The Caestus translation was atrocious and the main reason I'm apprehensive.

[TheTrans]

12 hours ago, Harrowmaster said:

I would very much like to be proved wrong about the militia but there's no way og knowing. The Caestus translation was atrocious and the main reason I'm apprehensive.

I would love to be proved wrong as well, but yeah, the Caestus wasn't a hard one to port across, it is known for what, 2 things, Ramming (its in the name) and being able to carry 10 termies no worries....which they some how passion fingered on both! 

[Captain Idaho]

=][= I've just amended the title so we don't confuse people who might miss the part of the post that confirms this isn't official. Wouldn't want to start Internet rumours by accident after all  =][=

Edited July 14, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Harrowmaster]

11 hours ago, TheTrans said:

I would love to be proved wrong as well, but yeah, the Caestus wasn't a hard one to port across, it is known for what, 2 things, Ramming (its in the name) and being able to carry 10 termies no worries....which they some how passion fingered on both! 

I'm dissapointed but not surprised with how they handled the PDF, hopefully the next one sees an improvement

[TheTrans]

Just another update, no doubt still a heap of errors missed but may as well keep cracking along. 

Got a fair whack of feedback from people and have tried to massage those bits and pieces in. 

Main thing added to the Liber Obscurus PDF was some fixes and I've added full reference sheets for all the forces and weapons in the back of the book for ease of gaming. Credit to The Flaymaster Events Page for the basic spreadsheets that I then proceeded to bastardise. 

I've also went in and attempted to fix a few units that just flat didn't work in the Legacies PDF, so hopefully these have landed well. 

I've popped in a Palantine Blade Jete Squad (Jete is some ballet word for jump apparently) so hopefully no one has to start wedging Jump Packs off of pretty boys. 

I'll probably start on 'todes soonish as I can imagine with Ka'Bandha dropping, we may see a Daemons PDF hit sooner rather than later. 
As always all feedback welcome and encouraged! 

Both files now just live in the below link, so use and abuse until your hearts content!
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1acIVawYZO-Ew1M8ll1rCB_SreqaYOhq1?usp=sharing

Edited July 16, 2022 by TheTrans

[Cadmus Tyro]

Excellent work, the Minotaur entry makes me happy! Now send your edited legacies pdf and convince GW to make it official!
 

I was just looking through the Facebook comments when the pdf dropped, not a single response from FW…..

Cadmus. 

[No Foes Remain]

The tweeks to the legacies is great, not much was needed to fix it but seemed beyond GW's power to do so. Now I must resist the temptation to get a Baneblade....

[TheTrans]

9 hours ago, Cadmus Tyro said:

Excellent work, the Minotaur entry makes me happy! Now send your edited legacies pdf and convince GW to make it official!
 

I was just looking through the Facebook comments when the pdf dropped, not a single response from FW…..

Cadmus. 

Thanks mate, yeah like so many things in that document smack of a complete lack of care or interest in making legacy (hell some units in there are nominally current) usable in the new edition. The Macharius vs Kratos still blows my mind (yet also doesn't).

Haha this suprises you how? GW as much as they say they 'listen' don't really to the wider community, I feel they have like an echo chamber of 'community influencers' and thats about it on the 'listening to your fanbase' front I'd say! 

9 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

The tweeks to the legacies is great, not much was needed to fix it but seemed beyond GW's power to do so. Now I must resist the temptation to get a Baneblade....

Yeah most of it was a 20%ish (or 50% in the Machs case) cut to all 'guard' super heavies and upping their front armour again. There is some stuff that needs some nuance to fix, but by and large they where the bigger probelms! 

[Noserenda]

I think its fairly obvious the points and rules of some things have been made deliberately bad to stop people from using them whilst having some plausible deniability, they managed to do a pretty crappy/transparent job of even that though, its not a great sign really, id expect them to never address it either way officially.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Noserenda

[TheTrans]

22 hours ago, Noserenda said:

I think its fairly obvious the points and rules of some things have been made deliberately bad to stop people from using them whilst having some plausible deniability, they managed to do a pretty crappy/transparent job of even that though, its not a great sign really, id expect them to never address it either way officially.

Oh yeah people awaiting an FAQ on that pdf will be sorely dissapointed I reckon mate. Oh yeah I don't think I've ever seen a release that so poorly hides its attempt to phase models out of usage by releasing terrible rules, like its off the charts even for GW haha. 

[TheTrans]

Hey all,

Just another quick pass of the Liber Obscurus (v1.5) and Liber Obscurus Legacies Balance Pass (v1.2).

Just fixed up a few issues here and there that where brought to my attention. Namely those horrific Ultramarine termies, just brought their plasma missiles more in line with the other plasma weapons we see floating about.

If any of you using the rules or balance pass could do me a huge favour of filling out a feedback sheet added below, any issues you see or stuff that still needs fixing, that'd be great as its much easier for me to manage than a huge swathe of DM's haha. 

Thanks in advance and keep enjoying 2.0! 

Liber Obscurus Feedback: https://forms.gle/H7PSx7zeLxDnkaLD7

Liber Obscurus: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1acIVawYZO-Ew1M8ll1rCB_SreqaYOhq1?usp=sharing

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'm not sure in what world that 1 shot at 24" per termi was horrific, even with bs 5 and the ability to stay still and ignore los; you have to get them there in the first place, and need to invest a chunk of points to do that properly.

You've slashed the plasma missile's efficacy enormously, but kept the same cost:

 

- cataphractii went from 0.51 unsaved instant death wounds per shot to 0.31 non-instant death wounds

- power armour  infantry went from 0.69 unsaved wounds per shot to 0.41

- vehicles need to be hull pointed down, now at STR 7. That's 0.14 successful roll vs av 13 and 0.27 vs av 12; the two most common armour values outside of rhinos.

You managed to turn those rockets into worse plasma blasters with a 24" range. 5 cataphractii at bs 4 average with 5 combi plasma/blasters average the same amount of unsaved wounds vs cataphractii. For 65 points less.

And that's not even getting into their direct comparison: Tyrants. For 10 pts more, that unit gets permanent ignore night fight (and shroud by extension), free intercept, and power fists. Their weapons have 48" range, have multiple shots, and have an anti air option. They're just better against every target now when comparing big shots. And arguably were already better all-around.

I'm not saying this to dunk on your efforts or to smear your work. We've all talked a lot about over-reactionary nerfs in 2nd, and the fulmentarus very much look like they're falling victim to the same treatment.

Edited August 16, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[TheTrans]

Chuck it in the feedback document mate and I'll roll it around. 

From all the pople I've been talking to who have been using them on the table all said the felt oppressive and pretty broken!

But its a living document, so hurl some feedback in and I'll do some shimmying when I sit down for another pass!! 

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, TheTrans said:

Chuck it in the feedback document mate and I'll roll it around. 

From all the pople I've been talking to who have been using them on the table all said the felt oppressive and pretty broken!

But its a living document, so hurl some feedback in and I'll do some shimmying when I sit down for another pass!! 

I've submitted it officially on the feedback document too.

I'd hope a unit that's basically an equivalent of a deathstar feels oppressive when you dump that many points into it. Between your delivery method (warmonger, land raider, spartan) and your unit, you're investing anywhere from 395 to 965. And that's still with base power weapons. Any serious legion elite unit will blow those numbers out of the water in melee when that many points are spent on them.

[TheTrans]

No probs mate.

Any other feed back, or just this axe to grind? 

[Brother_Angelus]

A 7" blast, S9 plasma for 400pts. Seems legit.

[Stitch5000]

On 7/17/2022 at 1:37 AM, TheTrans said:

 The Macharius vs Kratos still blows my mind (yet also doesn't).

The Macharius should never have been in HH lists anyway... It was even noted in earlier books that "we suggest using these models to represent big, old, redundant tanks" or words to that effect. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Stitch5000

[Cadmus Tyro]

On 8/16/2022 at 11:53 AM, Stitch5000 said:

The Macharius should never have been in HH lists anyway... It was even noted in earlier books that "we suggest using these models to represent big, old, redundant tanks" or words to that effect. 

True, to some degree….who’s to say that a recently discovered world was using an old STC, or perhaps the macharius was know by another name, used on Terra during the unification but surpassed by more “modern” astartes tech. 
 

Regardless, many players (myself included) have invested both money and hobby time into legitimate GW/FW products and we are now in a position where those options are now essentially unusable. That’s poor loyalty to your existing customer base from GW, all for the purpose of driving new sales (at least that’s how it looks to my cynical side). 
 

The Mecharius et al was never even a competitive option in 1st, it just provided the player with creative freedom at the expense of points efficiency, which is fine if you build a list to compensate. Unfortunately the current trend in HH 2.0 is to limit creative freedom, perhaps driven by GW protecting their I.P. No options unless there’s a model for it (with a few exceptions of course).

Most irritatingly of all, the problems with the PDF could be fixed fairly easily, I still hope they will, but appreciate this maybe unlikely. 

Anyway, I welcome the work TheTrans has done. Thanks again.

 

Cadmus 
 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Cadmus Tyro

[TheTrans]

17 hours ago, Brother_Angelus said:

A 7" blast, S9 plasma for 400pts. Seems legit.

Chuck it in the document mate! Warhound can bring 2 of them for 750pts... but happy to massage it one way or the other! :)

15 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

The Macharius should never have been in HH lists anyway... It was even noted in earlier books that "we suggest using these models to represent big, old, redundant tanks" or words to that effect. 

I feel the Macharius is an awesome heavy tank analogue, let alone amazing model. Sure the name of it is anachronistic, but you could easily just change the name to say a "Peraxes Light Assault Tank".....boom fits pefectly..and makes me wonder what a Peraxes Super-Heavy Assault tank would look like?! 

But some people just have no ability to look further than whats written on the tin and if thats the case, yes the Macharius, just due to its name, would stand out oddly (if they've read the fluff from the old Vraks imperial armours...).

13 hours ago, Cadmus Tyro said:

True, to some degree….who’s to say that a recently discovered world was using a old point STC, or perhaps the mecahrius was know by another name, used on Terra during the unification but surpassed by more “modern” astartes tech. 
 

Regardless, many players (myself included) have invested both money and hobby time into legitimate GW/FW products and we are now in a position where those options are now essentially unusable. That’s poor loyalty to your existing customer base from GW, all for the purpose of driving new sales (at least that’s how it looks to my cynical side). 
 

The Mecharius et al was never even a competitive option in 1st, it just provided the player with creative freedom at the expense of points inefficiency, which is fine if you build a list to compensate. Unfortunately the current trend in HH 2.0 is to limit creative freedom, perhaps driven by GW protecting their I.P. No options unless there’s a model for it (with a few exceptions of course).

Most irritatingly of all, the problems with the PDF could be fixed fairly easily, I still hope they will, but appreciate this maybe unlikely. 

Anyway, I welcome the work TheTrans has done. Thanks again.

 

Cadmus 
 

 

Thanks mate, thats all these documents are for ideally, to allow people, in good faith, to use the models they've put time, money and effort into. GW's latests trends are pretty :cuss:ty. Like we knew in our heart of hearts that it was eventually going to get 30k and badly, but we hoped... then we layered copium on with 'oh the legacies document will add everything back in'..like sure... it did, mostly...so GW followed the letter of their promise, but not really the spirit of it. 

Was very much 'Here, these are rules that funciton in 2.0. In any gaming sense you won't use them, or in some super heavy cases, can't until you're at almost 3500pts + which isn't common..but we gave you what we technically promised."

GW could very easily crack open there PDF (because it sure as isn't locked!) and just massage stuff around, but they'll never revisit it, they 'held up' their end of the bargain and thats where support for Legacies will end. I imagine we'll see the same thing happen to the Missin Mech units and solar aux stuff. Custodes will probably still have everything as most of it technically has models.

But god damn do I fear for Daemons and Militia & Cults when they hit.... 

But again Cadmus, thanks for the thanks mate :) 

Edited August 17, 2022 by TheTrans
Costing Edit