My wet palette isn't working for me, but why?

[Rogue]

I mean, I'm clearly doing something wrong, but I have no idea what. 

I have an Army Painter wet palette, and use GW paints (regular ones, not contrast). When I add the paint to the palette, it's fine - goes smooth, stays wet. But if I leave it overnight, lid on the box and everything, it's no good the next day - either the colour separates out, or it bleeds across the palette and into other colours. 

Anyone know why, and if I can fix it?

Thanks for your help.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I found that the provided paper with mine needed to be really wet to work, and I didn't get on with it. (Not an Army Painter one mind.)

I swapped back to using baking parchment, (not greaseproof or baking paper) and find that works really well.

[Arkhanist]

2 hours ago, Rogue said:

either the colour separates out, or it bleeds across the palette and into other colours. 

Paint separating into medium and pigment on the wet palette - somewhat - is fairly normal. Some paints do it a lot more than others (I believe P3 and pro acryl don't do it as much). You just need to remix them before use. It's the same thing that happens in the bottle in fact, which is why you have to shake them. The additional water just makes it happen faster.

Bleeding all across the palette though may be that the paper is feeding too much water to the paint. You want it to be a balance; it should feed in as much water as is being lost to evaporation; not enough, the paint still dries out; too much, the paint gets overdiluted and goes everywhere.

Two possibilities spring to mind, though I don't have the army painter palette personally.

1) from the instructions, the paper should be applied dry on top of the wet foam, and wrinkles smoothed out. If the paper is already wet when put in, or if the water 'level' is too high in the sponge, that could cause paint overwatering.

2) wet palettes are also affected by air humidity, which can cause issues when you seal it up tight. You might need to break the seal on the lid a bit (i.e. don't seal it down hard, or even prop it open slightly) to get the balance right for longer periods, though you'll need to top up the sponge more often, given evaporation will be higher.

3) alternative paper might work better in your environment, you may want one that lets less water through.

I currently have the opposite problem - my paint always dries out after a day or two unless the sponge is overflowing. I find my wet palette is great for extending your current session (i.e. you get to use up all the paint on the palette instead of going goopy and drying out in the middle of the model batch), but I don't rely on it keeping mixes lasting for days. But in your case, that might be what you need to reduce water flow - I'm using the redgrass games v1 single-use hydration paper.

(I'm currently waiting on the v2 palette with re-usable membranes)

Edited July 11, 2022 by Arkhanist

[Bung]

I think there is a missunderstanding about wet pallets.

They are only thought to be used for one session with short breaks, not to keep paints over night.

If it works its good for you, but it isnt the idea for wet pallets.

[Helias_Tancred]

5 hours ago, Rogue said:

I mean, I'm clearly doing something wrong, but I have no idea what. 

I have an Army Painter wet palette, and use GW paints (regular ones, not contrast). When I add the paint to the palette, it's fine - goes smooth, stays wet. But if I leave it overnight, lid on the box and everything, it's no good the next day - either the colour separates out, or it bleeds across the palette and into other colours. 

Anyone know why, and if I can fix it?

Thanks for your help.

You're fine. Mine does the same thing. I would recommend using baking parchment on your wet palette. Far better IMO than the sample sheets that I've seen come with various wet palettes. I got the $12 Amazon one, and sure it says for leaving paints overnight, but besides valuing a very thinned down Vallejo black, that claim is BS. Its for sole painting sessions. I use GW, Vallejo, and Army Painter paints and they all behave the same if left overnight. 

 

[Arkhanist]

2 hours ago, Bung said:

I think there is a missunderstanding about wet pallets.

They are only thought to be used for one session with short breaks, not to keep paints over night.

If it works its good for you, but it isnt the idea for wet pallets.

I had a DIY wet palette that could keep paint live for 5 days or so, longer if stored in the fridge, it was amazing for blending work. The tupperware was tiny diameter but deep, making it annoying to paint in, and the local shop I got the parchment from stopped doing it (was an own brand). It's all nonstick baking/greaseproof paper now everywhere, which has silicone or something in it making it useless for a palette. Plus the sponge stank, despite my best efforts to fight mould.

So I switched to a mastersons - that worked pretty well, but getting the balance between overwatering and drying out mid session was a giant pain in the ass due to a crap seal, plus the thing was too big for my workspace. And now the redgrass v1, which is on the dry side - can last overnight, just - but works fine for long/interupted sessions if you keep the sponge topped up regularly, and is a good size.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Arkhanist

[Rogue]

Thanks chaps - that's all helpful stuff. Looks like I'm using it right, but with false expectations around paint longevity. I can work with that.

[our_baz]

Just to add to what previous fraters have said

I've used a couple of wet palettes over the years, the paint separation on standing over night is common. This is due to the underlying chemistry and formulation of the paints, for some colours its more pronounced than others. I've seen this in both my original DIY palette and my redgrasss v1 wet palette.

The bleeding (or colours running together) that happened to me the first few times of using my DIY palette and storing overnight, I was adding too much water to foam and it was all bleeding through and seeping over the top of the sheet. Reducing the amount of water I was using stopped this. Not had this issue with the Redgrass v! palette.

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I find this paper works really well:

 

Parchment Baking Paper – If You Care UK

[Bung]

5 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

I had a DIY wet palette that could keep paint live for 5 days or so, longer if stored in the fridge, it was amazing for blending work. The tupperware was tiny diameter but deep, making it annoying to paint in, and the local shop I got the parchment from stopped doing it (was an own brand). It's all nonstick baking/greaseproof paper now everywhere, which has silicone or something in it making it useless for a palette. Plus the sponge stank, despite my best efforts to fight mould.

So I switched to a mastersons - that worked pretty well, but getting the balance between overwatering and drying out mid session was a giant pain in the ass due to a crap seal, plus the thing was too big for my workspace. And now the redgrass v1, which is on the dry side - can last overnight, just - but works fine for long/interupted sessions if you keep the sponge topped up regularly, and is a good size.

 

You will always make a new setup with kitchen towels and parchment paper for every session in the redgrass v1.

Mostly to avoid mould and other sanitary issues.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I microwave my sponge every now and then to avoid mould, I also have some copper coins under the sponge, and chuck a few drops of hydrogen peroxide into the mix to aid the bacteria situation. (I have lots of it as a contact lens user.)

[Arkhanist]

2 hours ago, Bung said:

 

You will always make a new setup with kitchen towels and parchment paper for every session in the redgrass v1.

Mostly to avoid mould and other sanitary issues.

The redgrass doesn't use kitchen towels, it has its own anti-microbial sponge. It's not the same as normal sponge certainly, it goes very hard and crinkles up when it dries out.

I did try the copper coin, the dash of peroxide and dash of washing up liquid with my old DIY setup (not all at once!), none worked effectively, though it was an inch thick natural sponge that held an absolute ton of water, so that probably had something to do with it.

For the redgrass, I just soak and rise out the sponge and tray in warm soapy water periodically which has been all its needed so far, no mould or smell. I tend to swap the sponge over as well as that point, as it came with 2. They tell you not to use harsher cleaner, and after I splashed some IPA on the lid I can see why (it's altered the texture of the plastic a bit). I don't swap the paper out every session either, as I'm quite economical with it and it takes a while before I fill it up.

I just top up the water with distilled water in a squeezy bottle with a long bent straw nozzle (can't remember the name) - if there's not a little water visible round the sponge, then it's too dry! (that was the main trick I needed to figure out)

Between the airbrush, oils, metallics and contrast/speedpaint (the latter which don't play well with a wet palette) I'm using my dry palette a lot more than I used to. The wet palette is still nice for layering & highlights though!

When my v2 turns up, I've also ordered a glass infill to go in the v1, which will then either become my oils palette or my new dry palette, depending upon which it's better for! (I have mini mixing palettes for oil washes, and an old tile for dry paints which has seen better days)

Edited July 12, 2022 by Arkhanist

[lhg033]

3 hours ago, Brother Adelard said:

I microwave my sponge every now and then to avoid mould, I also have some copper coins under the sponge, and chuck a few drops of hydrogen peroxide into the mix to aid the bacteria situation. (I have lots of it as a contact lens user.)

now that's a good idea - I shall be borrowing that one :)

for me, a homemade palette of kitchen roll with baking paper in tuppaware works pretty well and the paint generally lasts on it longer than the project I am working on. I generally put the paper in (2-3 sheets on top of each other then all folded to fit) then fill the container slowly to damp the paper thoroughly, gently press it down a little and drain off the excess water then put dry baking paper on top and let if settle in place.

I've heard some people keep them in the fridge but never tried this myself.

[Bung]

3 hours ago, Arkhanist said:

The redgrass doesn't use kitchen towels, it has its own anti-microbial sponge. It's not the same as normal sponge certainly, it goes very hard and crinkles up when it dries out.

I did try the copper coin, the dash of peroxide and dash of washing up liquid with my old DIY setup (not all at once!), none worked effectively, though it was an inch thick natural sponge that held an absolute ton of water, so that probably had something to do with it.

For the redgrass, I just soak and rise out the sponge and tray in warm soapy water periodically which has been all its needed so far, no mould or smell. I tend to swap the sponge over as well as that point, as it came with 2. They tell you not to use harsher cleaner, and after I splashed some IPA on the lid I can see why (it's altered the texture of the plastic a bit). I don't swap the paper out every session either, as I'm quite economical with it and it takes a while before I fill it up.

I just top up the water with distilled water in a squeezy bottle with a long bent straw nozzle (can't remember the name) - if there's not a little water visible round the sponge, then it's too dry! (that was the main trick I needed to figure out)

Between the airbrush, oils, metallics and contrast/speedpaint (the latter which don't play well with a wet palette) I'm using my dry palette a lot more than I used to. The wet palette is still nice for layering & highlights though!

When my v2 turns up, I've also ordered a glass infill to go in the v1, which will then either become my oils palette or my new dry palette, depending upon which it's better for! (I have mini mixing palettes for oil washes, and an old tile for dry paints which has seen better days)

I have the sponges and the paper for the redgrass palette but after giving a used sponge to a microbiologist labtech out of curiosity i have gone back to paper towels and running the palette through the dish washer once a month.

I got a glass infill forvthe studio Palette too, but havent used it much.

[bigtrouble]

My experience has been with a home made wet pallet, using blue shop towels, which are a heavy duty paper towel, and parchment paper. I can keep paints going for at least 3 days, sometimes a week if I re-wet the towel correctly. I like the home made over the commercial because I can just throw it out if I mess up. Some things I have learned are:

1. Separation doesn't matter, just use an old brush to mix it back together.

2. The towel can definitely be too wet and this will make it worse. 

3. Evaporation is good, it keeps the paint a more consistent texture. I achieve this by leaving the lid slightly ajar to allow some moisture to escape, then add a bit of water every session to replace it.

4. I can recover dried out paint that is still tacky by simply adding water to the sponge and closing the lid tightly for several hours or overnight.