Characters should have double their amount of wounds

[The Emperors Champion22]

What is the point of characters having 4-6 wounds when they all have upwards of 5-6 attacks, with all the re-rolls, mortals on 6's, extra hits from WT's, relics, and most weapons nowadays are damage 2-3? we might as well give every character -1 damage taken per attack (to a minimum of 1).

seriously, this game is so deadly that most characters dont survive the first round of combat and get to hit back.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Why should a character have the same number of wounds as a large armored vehicle?

[Brother_Angelus]

That would just be sticking a bandaid over the missing head 40k is currently afflicted with.

There is too much going on in this 'cycle' of the ruleset (8th/9th/etc), too many options, too many weapons, too many stratagems, too many interactions between all those things to fix with a single specific change. 

[JaM_TW]

It'll probably all be fixed by 10th edition... 

 

Seriously: there is so much going on during the game that I have a headache after it. And even then I missed stuff. It's easy to step in (those startersets were brilliant! Either the Nurgle Primaris or Necron Primaris sets) but there are so many factors/strats/extra stuff to keep track of that I am sometimes completely baffled by it all. 

Then again, I might be getting to old for this stuff 

[phandaal]

5 hours ago, JaM_naf#6121 said:

It'll probably all be fixed by 10th edition... 

 

Seriously: there is so much going on during the game that I have a headache after it. And even then I missed stuff. It's easy to step in (those startersets were brilliant! Either the Nurgle Primaris or Necron Primaris sets) but there are so many factors/strats/extra stuff to keep track of that I am sometimes completely baffled by it all. 

Then again, I might be getting to old for this stuff 

Deathwing. Combo of Terminator armor and Inner Circle negates many of the rules team's asinine escalations. Give them some Mortal Wound protection and you will actually get to play with the models instead of removing them from the table immediately.

Plus there is very little to remember in the way of strategems, so my brain can be as smooth as a marble while I do the pew pew with my spacemen.

Ultimate anti-9th Edition army.

[Valkyrion]

This is a very simple thing to test amongst your group - simply play a couple of games where all the characters have double wounds and see how you get on. 

A 24 wound Gazghkull running around will be enough to ensure it doesn't happen again, though, especially if up against a non-Psyker army so it takes 3 full turns of maximum damage in both phases to kill him. 

[Emperor Ming]

Absolutely not, some characters are already very hard to kill

Increasing wounds outside of the established norm atm, would lead to a new era of power creep as weapons get constantly changed to keep up and I'm quite sure many, don't want more power creep, its already out of hand this edition 

[Scribe]

lol no.

Maybe, just maybe, 9th is a lost cause at this point (spoiler: I believe it is and we need to return to better days...)

[MARK0SIAN]

I am generally of the opinion that 9th is a lost cause as far as complexity and lethality go but it’s hard to see how 10th will fix that without a hard reset.

Wasn’t one of the whole reasons for resetting from 7th edition was that it had gotten out of hand in terms of complexity? I don’t remember 7th being anything like as complex as the modern game is, even with its unkillable deathstars. 9th edition feels more like some deck building card game than playing with toy soldiers and I really wish it didn’t. 

I understand OPs frustration about some characters dying easily but there are plenty out there that are tough to kill and simply doubling wounds is the kind of thing that has got us into this crazy level of power creep we’ve seen. 

Everything needs to be dialled back rather than ramped up further. 

[Schlitzaf]

Even if chars are fragile without escort they are still better off then “Wild Power Fist Murder”

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

I am generally of the opinion that 9th is a lost cause as far as complexity and lethality go but it’s hard to see how 10th will fix that without a hard reset.

Wasn’t one of the whole reasons for resetting from 7th edition was that it had gotten out of hand in terms of complexity? I don’t remember 7th being anything like as complex as the modern game is, even with its unkillable deathstars. 9th edition feels more like some deck building card game than playing with toy soldiers and I really wish it didn’t. 

I understand OPs frustration about some characters dying easily but there are plenty out there that are tough to kill and simply doubling wounds is the kind of thing that has got us into this crazy level of power creep we’ve seen. 

Everything needs to be dialled back rather than ramped up further. 

Drop in game strats, increase T, make any in game strats can become datasheet special rules.

reduce number of WLTs and relics.

I don’t think a hard reset is necessary.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[tychobi]

Hahaha Mortrarion with 36 wounds!  Your "fix" for bringing weak characters would break the game in other ways.  Characters are fragile by design.  This is not hero hammer.  Also OP your name is kinda offensive

[Valkyrion]

2 hours ago, tychobi said:

Hahaha Mortrarion with 36 wounds!  Your "fix" for bringing weak characters would break the game in other ways.  Characters are fragile by design.  This is not hero hammer.  Also OP your name is kinda offensive

I gave the OP's username the benefit of the doubt, because I couldn't find a really bad thing beyond, you know, the r4pist part of their name. 

I'm not that au-fait with the wider internet and memes and things so, it might be a joke I don't understand because I'm 40 and British, but one does not simply walk into B&C, so they must've been accepted by our glorious leaders. Hence the benefit of the doubt. 

[Gederas]

No, doubling the wound characteristic is a dumb idea, sorry. Mortation with 36 wounds? Ghazkull with with 24 wounds? That sounds like all the wrong things.

 

3 hours ago, tychobi said:

Hahaha Mortrarion with 36 wounds!  Your "fix" for bringing weak characters would break the game in other ways.  Characters are fragile by design.  This is not hero hammer.  Also OP your name is kinda offensive

28 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

I gave the OP's username the benefit of the doubt, because I couldn't find a really bad thing beyond, you know, the r4pist part of their name. 

I'm not that au-fait with the wider internet and memes and things so, it might be a joke I don't understand because I'm 40 and British, but one does not simply walk into B&C, so they must've been accepted by our glorious leaders. Hence the benefit of the doubt. 

It's from The Whitest Kids You Know skit "The Grapeist"

[phandaal]

45 minutes ago, Gederas said:

The Whitest Kids You Know

Now that is a name I have not heard in a long time. Trevor Moore used to prank call people from my home town.

[The Emperors Champion22]

19 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Why should a character have the same number of wounds as a large armored vehicle?

double everythings wounds then, you can adjust the numbers afterwards if its super unbalanced for a few units.

9 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

This is a very simple thing to test amongst your group - simply play a couple of games where all the characters have double wounds and see how you get on. 

A 24 wound Gazghkull running around will be enough to ensure it doesn't happen again, though, especially if up against a non-Psyker army so it takes 3 full turns of maximum damage in both phases to kill him. 

sounds like how powerful ghazkull should actually be, we could just raise the amount of wounds he can suffer per phase to compensate.

[The Emperors Champion22]

4 hours ago, tychobi said:

Hahaha Mortrarion with 36 wounds!  Your "fix" for bringing weak characters would break the game in other ways.  Characters are fragile by design.  This is not hero hammer.  Also OP your name is kinda offensive

ok then dont double his wounds.

[The Emperors Champion22]

1 hour ago, Valkyrion said:

I gave the OP's username the benefit of the doubt, because I couldn't find a really bad thing beyond, you know, the r4pist part of their name. 

I'm not that au-fait with the wider internet and memes and things so, it might be a joke I don't understand because I'm 40 and British, but one does not simply walk into B&C, so they must've been accepted by our glorious leaders. Hence the benefit of the doubt. 

sorry man its a reference to this video 

 

[The Emperors Champion22]

1 hour ago, Gederas said:

No, doubling the wound characteristic is a dumb idea, sorry. Mortation with 36 wounds? Ghazkull with with 24 wounds? That sounds like all the wrong things.

 

It's from The Whitest Kids You Know skit "The Grapeist"

ok then dont double those characters wounds, increase them by less or if theyre fine now then leave them alone.

[The Emperors Champion22]

20 minutes ago, Trysanna said:

This is just....so uncomfortable to watch. Not exactly an appropriate name for a 'family friendly' site when it's a play on a word for an act of sexual assault. Edgy internet humour from a over a decade ago just doesn't hold up.

i still think its hilarious, but i get why you dont like it. 

[The Emperors Champion22]

2 minutes ago, Trysanna said:

Less 'don't like it' and more 'makes me incredibly uncomfortable as a woman and is a casual reminder of one of the worst things you can do to a person and a thing that could happen to me at anytime as I am a woman and at risk of sexual assault on a daily basis' and 'not appropriate for a site that doesn't allow swearing'

ok well that sucks but about the doubling of characters wounds, how do you feel about that?

[Brother Tyler]

The display name will be changed.

Let's get back on topic - the number of wounds characters should have.

[The Emperors Champion22]

3 minutes ago, Trysanna said:

I feel like you should more concerned with how you make women feel uncomfortable and don't care about casually referencing sexual assault and how it's a joke to you, but I don't think doubling the wounds would work because 9th requires a bit of a reworking from the ground up in terms of S and T, as well as a toning down of strategems and CP. But hey, glad you can get back to your talk about rules for toy soldiers 

yeah sorry its pretty insensitive and im gonna change the name, i just didnt want to make the thread all about it. i didnt mean to make you uncomfortable. Back onto warhammer tho 100% i agree with you, s&t seem out of whack and there are way too many strats that could be abilities or completely break some units/armies.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, The Emperors Champion22 said:

double everythings wounds then, you can adjust the numbers afterwards if its super unbalanced for a few units.

sounds like how powerful ghazkull should actually be, we could just raise the amount of wounds he can suffer per phase to compensate.

No, this is such a stupid idea.

just like demanding X weapon get a big direct buff to its lethality.

2 hours ago, The Emperors Champion22 said:

ok then dont double those characters wounds, increase them by less or if theyre fine now then leave them alone.

So then normal characters begin to approach the durability of the biggest baddies in their faction? That doesn’t make sense either 

 

GW needs to work on lowering the lethality.

fewer rerolls to hit/wound, fewer strats or special rules that give +1 to hit/wound, or -1 to save.

maybe mega armor could get ramshackle, or something, and similar for other units with similar armor in other factions, but just doubling character wounds is such a hamfisted way to try to fix the lethality problem.

 

here’s a great example that doesn’t require a named faction mega character.

guard company commander has 4 wounds, that means he already has a good chance of surviving a lascannon shot, doubling his wounds means a single lascannon a dedicated anti-tank weapon cannot kill him, raising it to 6 means there’s only a 16% chance a lascannon can one shot him.

could some characters here and there use to get an extra wound or two? Sure, but do characters as a whole need more wounds? No, particularly since they shouldn’t be targetable until T3 or so if you’re playing them smartly.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Helias_Tancred]

My Auspex is pinging on this thread.