Predators vs Sicarians.

[Marshal Mittens]

Looking at the base Sicarian, and the plastic Predator options, which do you feel, point for point, are the better options? It seems like you can get almost 4 predators for the same points as two Sicarians. Predators seem like a very attractive option that I almost feel are too cheap? 

[Valkyrion]

Predators, IMO.

They have plenty of options, a smaller footprint so are easier to hide and there are lots of ways to get them out of the heavy support slot if you need Leviathans, Kratos or Spartans - the armoured spearhead rite, salamanders covenant, one of the World Eaters rites etc.

Plus, I think they look better, especially the deimos models. 

[Mandragola]

It's Predators for me too, for the reasons stated above.

The Melta Predator turret really stands out for me. 3 twin-linked melta shots on a 140 point platform is impressive. It fires armourbane at 18" after moving 7 or 14", which is far enough to threaten things in the enemy DZ on turn 1. I think that option is particularly undercosted. If you need to stop an enemy Spartan there aren't many better options, and it's hard to think of any that aren't suicidal. It's a main gun almost as good as that on a Kratos, which costs more than twice as many points. I'm therefore working on a vague plan to try and convert three ancient Mars Class Predators I've got (most of, can't find the turret on the third one!) to have melta turrets.

[SkimaskMohawk]

The sicaran really took a hit and paid for its sins during the LA:CAL period when it was severely undercosted.

In the transition it gained an extra hullpoint, but lost fast and rapid tracking. The autocannon basically got worse, as twinlinked 6 shots averages the same amount of hits as 8 normal shots, and is better whenever a modifier would come in (like omni present night fight, or flyers). Losing fast means that it has to go slower to fire all its weapons, and has a slower top speed, even with its new Movement 16. And the sicaran went up 5 points after all that for its base loadout; being 5 points cheaper for lascannons isn't a beneficial trade for the loss of effectiveness.

[Valkyrion]

What about sponsonless predators? 
I don't have the books immediately to hand so I can't do the points, but maybe sponsonless Melta preds as a non compulsory troops in whatever RoW allows them if you need anti tank, or sponsonless volkite or normal preds if you need anti infantry? Just a few tanks running around being bothersome?  Or is it simply always worth the upgrade to sponsons, or taking a rhino with a multi melta and start a unit embarked?

[Noserenda]

Sponsonless Predators are no longer an option unfortunately, damn things.

I reasonably converted a Mars melta pred turret with a Reaver titan melta weapon i had lying around as the common knight melta looks a bit big to me, id get a pic but the join still needs tidying and i am quite drunk :D 

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

2 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Sponsonless Predators are no longer an option unfortunately, damn things.

I reasonably converted a Mars melta pred turret with a Reaver titan melta weapon i had lying around as the common knight melta looks a bit big to me, id get a pic but the join still needs tidying and i am quite drunk :D 

I assume you mean a titanicus reaver ;) 

[Noserenda]

14 minutes ago, Altis said:

I assume you mean a titanicus reaver ;) 

Oh yes! :D 

[Bung]

6 hours ago, Mandragola said:

It's Predators for me too, for the reasons stated above.

The Melta Predator turret really stands out for me. 3 twin-linked melta shots on a 140 point platform is impressive. It fires armourbane at 18" after moving 7 or 14", which is far enough to threaten things in the enemy DZ on turn 1. I think that option is particularly undercosted. If you need to stop an enemy Spartan there aren't many better options, and it's hard to think of any that aren't suicidal. It's a main gun almost as good as that on a Kratos, which costs more than twice as many points. I'm therefore working on a vague plan to try and convert three ancient Mars Class Predators I've got (most of, can't find the turret on the third one!) to have melta turrets.

Kromlech offers turrets with different weapons.

But for me the Melta Pred got worse cause he lost the 5" template. 

I used him last Edition and he was good to clear 2W Terminators like Red Butchers.

 

5 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

The sicaran really took a hit and paid for its sins during the LA:CAL period when it was severely undercosted.

In the transition it gained an extra hullpoint, but lost fast and rapid tracking. The autocannon basically got worse, as twinlinked 6 shots averages the same amount of hits as 8 normal shots, and is better whenever a modifier would come in (like omni present night fight, or flyers). Losing fast means that it has to go slower to fire all its weapons, and has a slower top speed, even with its new Movement 16. And the sicaran went up 5 points after all that for its base loadout; being 5 points cheaper for lascannons isn't a beneficial trade for the loss of effectiveness.

On the other side the Sicaran variants got cheaper. 2 Sicaran Punishers with all the Heavy Bolters are around 60 Points cheaper and the main gun can be used in reactions.

The Omega got a great boost in His anti tank weapon profile and got cheaper too.

The Arcus has one of the few guns that kept Ap 2 as standard.

 

 

[Misterduch]

I am a bit late to the topic, but:

Basic sicarian I feel is overpriced.

Omega, Arcus and Punisher variants however are at the very least very fun units to play around with.

 

Omega especially can be great at taking out light armour, while the punisher can just laugh at infantry blobs. Arcus Neutron flux missiles seem like a solid choice if you go up against automata heavy armies 

[Marshal Mittens]

I wonder if we will see the other variants released after the basic one?

[Mandragola]

The sprue layout of the sicaran looks like it would allow you to swap out the turret sprue and replace it with one of the other variants. I don’t know if they’ll do this, or soon, but it’s feasible. 

I still prefer predators though. I’ve converted a veeery old mars class predator to have a melta and I think the result looks decent. I might go one or two more but magnetise the guns to have some options. Lascannon sponsons would be a nice upgrade to sometimes use, at only 10 points for the set  

[Gorgoff]

The nice thing about heavy Bolter sponsons is that they can shoot at infantry while the main cannon can do her thing. 

[Mandragola]

Yeah heavy bolters are decent. It's also not a disaster if you need to move fast to get into melta range. Oh and you can use them for reactions. On the other hand, lascannons can tank weapon destroyed damage results. Without them you risk losing the main gun.

[Misterduch]

4 hours ago, Gorgoff said:

The nice thing about heavy Bolter sponsons is that they can shoot at infantry while the main cannon can do her thing. 

I preffer Volkites over Heavy bolters for that tbh.

 

Mostly because I am a sucker for choom, but hey, yolo

[The Scorpion]

3 hours ago, Mandragola said:

Yeah heavy bolters are decent. It's also not a disaster if you need to move fast to get into melta range. Oh and you can use them for reactions. On the other hand, lascannons can tank weapon destroyed damage results. Without them you risk losing the main gun.

Why can't defensive weapons tank weapon destroyed results?

Is there a new rule just for that?

[Mandragola]

57 minutes ago, The Scorpion said:

Why can't defensive weapons tank weapon destroyed results?

Is there a new rule just for that?

Yes, check the vehicle damage table on page 208. Battle weapons have to be destroyed first.

[Noserenda]

Suddenly the sound of a thousand cheap pintle weapons being ripped off :D 

[Gorgoff]

6 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Suddenly the sound of a thousand cheap pintle weapons being ripped off :D 

Remember thatvthey count as defensive weapons as well. ;)