Getting the best out of Gal Vorbak

[Torvak Kyre]

Hello everyone,

I had my first game of 2.0 today against my friend. I was running Luna Wolves and he was running Word Bearers. One thing he was quite excited to run was his big unit of Gal Vorbak, led by Argel Tal. They got a first turn charge running out of a Spartan, straight into a 5 unit of Cataphractii led by Garviel Loken. And then they just bounced right off. 
 

Admittedly, Loken managed to instant death Argel Tal in a challenge, but due to the Sons of Horus legion rule and the Hold the Line reaction, they caused a total of 3 wounds against the Terminators. 
 

The next few turns they did a some more damage and ended up destroying them, but by that point another terminator squad and a leviathan had hopped into the combat. 

Is this just real bad luck that they were just unable to do any real damage, or were they used wrong?

The unit in total was 820 points and it just bounced right off a 460 point unit of terminators with Loken. 

[Slips]

Thats because the baseline Tainted Talons are only AP3 rending on a 6+ meaning all the terminators got their 2+ armor save for the most part outside of the few Ap2 Power Fist Attack (he did give the unit Power Fists, right?) and rends. This means that the terminators were not falling back onto the 4++ so were able to just shrug off a greater majority of the wounding hits dealt to the unit. Also, not being baseline S8+ or ID means that any failed 2+ saves probably didnt instakill a terminator.

 

When you go up against other TDA Equivalent units you bring: Ap2 and High-Strength to ID multiwounds and bypass any possible FNPs otherwise, youre not going to be doing much of anything.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Slips

[Torvak Kyre]

So if they’re ineffective against terminators, what is their roll? They seem way too expensive for running around killing marine equivalents. At the same time though with S and T 5 with 3 W and A, I don’t think you could reduce their price without making them too good. They just seem like a bit of a lost unit. 

[Slips]

Much like Gal Vorbak in HH1.0, they need buffs from other characters, RoW, etc. to become able to effectively take down TEQ. 

Otherwise, their main benefit is being immune to ID from S9 and below meaning their 3W goes a lot further and, as such, can just be damage sponges for any attached characters, like Lorgar Transfigured, who'll be doing the majority of the heavy lifting.

You definitely want to give them a Chaplain at nearly all costs to give them Hatred Rerolls.

[SkimaskMohawk]

So the 820 was Argel Tal and 10 gal Vorbak with 2 fists?

Because the average amount of wounds from 10 GV (into Hold the Line and Sons of Horus) is 8.58 (2.8 murderous strike) from talons and 3.2 from power fists. So an average of 3 dead cataphractii. If the terminators have fists, they should average 0.83 unsaved wounds back to the GV.

Loken similarly shouldn't kill Argel Tal on the first round (or at all). The chance of getting a murderous strike through invul is 0.32. Even just the average amount of unsaved wounds is 0.65. And that drops off after the first round benefit from Wolf of Luna is gone.

Basically your friend got extraordinarily unlucky.

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[MichaelCarmine]

With the rising number of dreads - only a theory, but they look, like a barebone Unit (with atleast one Powerfist, of course) is a decent unit when going against (Contemptor) Dreadnoughts.

They can eat the Overwatch, strike before the Dread, hitting on 4s with wounding 6s ap2 and D3 wounds.

And even if the dread survives, he does what? on average kill 1 guy? So he's dead in the opponents next Assault phase.

Atleast they look that way =]

[Chronotonic]

5 hours ago, MichaelCarmine said:

With the rising number of dreads - only a theory, but they look, like a barebone Unit (with atleast one Powerfist, of course) is a decent unit when going against (Contemptor) Dreadnoughts.

They can eat the Overwatch, strike before the Dread, hitting on 4s with wounding 6s ap2 and D3 wounds.

And even if the dread survives, he does what? on average kill 1 guy? So he's dead in the opponents next Assault phase.

Atleast they look that way =]

 

sounds like they are a hard middle of the line troop killer not elite killers (terminators)

 

*scribbles notes down in army list I am building*