Black Library and their flaws

[Felix Antipodes]

Truely, I believe more and more that BL is becoming a vanity project for GW than a real publishing outlet.  If Orbit ran their company this way they would be out of business quick smart.  Simply frustrating.

I also believe they lost a lot of authors to Aconyte, etc, because most authors who write for established IP live or die (quite literally) by what they get published and, if I were amongst their number (god forbid), I would be going where I could get the most work.  It can’t help that they seem to favour their in house authors over the true freelancers.

[Knockagh]

Imagine trying to get into BL reading for the first time. Can you imagine a hobby more impossible to get into. They would need a set of instructions just to allow them a chance to buy a book.

“You must be at your computer every Saturday at 9.55am, if it’s a big release you must have bought GW vouchers to the book value (which you won’t know) in advance, if you dont get the book your voucher is wasted….if it’s a huge release you should be on the site early but it will make no difference as you will be stuck in a random order queue with a chance to get your book. But don’t worry because if your still mad keen to get into these books and maybe you work Saturdays you can always buy them on eBay for £100 each”

And a warning that in all likely hood they won’t get the next in the series. I’m just waiting on them moving the Saturday release to Sunday mornings and I need to decide if I go to church with my family or buy a book. 

[DarkChaplain]

I'm still mad that their print run for Archaon: Lord of Chaos back then was so ludicrously tiny, I never managed to buy a copy. Still haven't read it, still having a lone Everchosen on my shelf. They did the same for The End Times, which is why I only ever managed to buy The Return of Nagash in hardback and had to wait for the trade paperbacks on all the rest. The FINAL books in their setting and they managed to completely underestimate demand.... and then seemed to double down on that style of business.

Heck, I've been meaning to replace a bunch of my old WHFB Omnibuses with the new Warhammer Chronicles editions, for consistency and a lack of wear&tear, since a lot of these had to be purchased 2nd hand even back then. They're barely even still available in print - a clear backlog series for the express purpose of keeping those classics around and available. Try getting the Gotrek & Felix omnibuses. Heck, you were near unable to buy them new by the time the 5th and 6th volumes released!

Try getting people into Peter Fehervari's Dark Coil - you can't outside of ebooks. I've even read complaints about Ciaphas Cain omnibuses going out of print, and Eisenhorn is currently in limbo, waiting for the new edition of its omnibus, with a terribly comic-booky cover, rather than the Clint Langley art.

Hell, I can't even get friends into Warhammer Horror, because half the range is out of print.

[Felix Antipodes]

This is one of the non-professional things which burns me a lot.  What sort of company doesn’t keep their best sellers in print?  With BL once they’re gone they’re gone.  And don’t point at ebooks as the answer.  They charge more for those than any other company out there and a lot of people won't touch them anyway.

[Ubiquitous1984]

From the latest GW financial report:

 

"After a record performance last year, Black Library, our novel publishing division, struggled in the face of global supply disruption with many key new releases arriving later than planned. Underlying sales continue to grow, especially in the digital space, with sales of electronic and audio books exceeding those of physical for the first time ever."

(well of course audio and ebook sales now exceed physical, because no one but the most hardcore fans can get hold of a new hardbook book like The Dark City!)

BL sales are MASSIVELY down I'm afraid.  £2.3M in FY21 down to £1.6M in FY22.  

Let's hope the current financial year sees a big improvement.  I'm sure the release of multiple Primarch LE's (with their 2500 print runs) will help (£112500 per book in instant revenue).  If you add in the anticipated SoT book 7 due in the next couple of months, that's £450K in revenue across four HH LE releases.  

[Ubiquitous1984]

I'm looking through my GW website order history to see what BL Limited Editions and Special Editions were released in the reporting period. I think I bought every book that was available. In the relevant period they released the below. I have noted the price I paid, and then in brackets my estimate of total revenue for the sale of all copies by BL. Please note I have had to estimate a few of these as I am away from my books so can't double check, but I'm pretty sure they're a good estimate):

Dominion Orks version - £40 (40k) Dominion Stormcast Eternal edition - £40 (40k) Lions Gate LE map - £40 (unknown print run, if we assume 1000 that's 40k) Double Eagle SE - £35 (35k) Wolftime SE - £45 (90k) Twice Dead King Ruin - £40 (40k) Warhawk LE - £50 (125k) Twice Dead King Reign £40 (40k) Volpone Glory - £40 (40k) Forges of Mars - £90 (90k) Sigismund - £40 (60k) Defence of Lion's Gate map - £40 (approx 40k) Triumph of St Katherine - £35 (35k) Bequin - £40 (60k) Ahriman Mega Edition - £90 (90k) Ravenor Rogue - £35 (35k) Huron - £40 (40k) Throne of Light - £45 (90k)
Khârn - £40 (50k)

By my calculations all of the special edition and limited edition BL releases in the 12 month reporting period, equate to £1,080,000 in total sales. So almost 2/3 of total BL revenue is generated by their limited releases. This shows how small the print runs (and correspondingly, sales) must be for their basic hardback and paperback releases.

[theSpirea]

I was just going through the report and wanted to do something similar. I have a sheet I update weekly and keep track of all BL releases. Here's the list for 2021 FY (Special, Limited, Mega, Box editions) and a separate list for regular hardbacks only. If we consider there are almost 30 titles and if the digital sales exceed physical, the print runs must be extremely small. I didn't even include regular paperbacks (around 40).

The mindset/business strategy to push digital sales is... Of course digital sales exceed physical if you don't print enough copies. You force people to buy digital since physical simply isn't available. However, not everyone likes ebooks, I personally refuse to pay for ebooks, especially the ridiculous prices BL is charging. Most of my friends feel the same and we simply stopped buying BL books because hardbacks are not available.

I mean, $17 for ebook? You can get paperback for less and even hardback from other publishers for this price.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by theSpirea

[Knockagh]

Well done Spirea, nice piece of work will get a proper look at this later. Who doesn’t like a few figures??

I'm with you on ebooks, it’s just not happening for me. I will read an electronic book for study as it’s easier for comparison but that’s just because a lot of non BL books I read are old and the language can be difficult so I usually like study guides or commentaries open beside them. But when it comes to a BL book I’m there for the fun and that means coffee, armchair and a book. Sometimes a cat.

[caladancid]

Of course eBooks are selling more than physical. The actual physical product doesn’t exist. 
 

I say this as someone who reads nearly exclusively eBooks, the prices BL charges for eBooks are dumb. Just plain stupid. So if the physical books don’t exist, and the eBooks are priced where nobody who doesn’t already love the lore buys them, that math is pretty easy and it’s in the financial report. 

[Sothalor]

I feel the need here to point out that 1.6M figure is from their Trade revenue stream - how much they made selling to distributors.

Based on how they describe things, sales from the GW web store and BL site should fall under the Online category, and we don't have a more detailed breakdown for that, just an overall figure of 85.3M and a Digital subcategory figure of 12.4M

[Ubiquitous1984]

1 hour ago, A Melancholic Sanguinity said:

I feel the need here to point out that 1.6M figure is from their Trade revenue stream - how much they made selling to distributors.

Based on how they describe things, sales from the GW web store and BL site should fall under the Online category, and we don't have a more detailed breakdown for that, just an overall figure of 85.3M and a Digital subcategory figure of 12.4M

Wow, a big error with my analysis in that case.  Thanks for the clarification.  

[skylerboodie]

Posted the below in NR&BA's Investor Report thread, but actually meant to put it in here, as far more relevant thread.

 

Whilst I do have some sympathy for the paper/printing and distribution issues which may or may not be the cause of the seriously reduced print runs of late, for me the biggest issue is entirely of BL's own making and that is the appalling (lack of) communication with readers. Not just the incomplete, slow, and silent Coming Soon page updates and the lack of decent community support - though the recent Thursday articles are definitely a welcome improvement - but just the general disdain they seem to have for the readership, compared to the treatment the miniatures side gets. 

 

For example, 

 

- printing first books in a series in special editions then not the followups (they said at a BL Live event pre covid that they'd stop doing that, and went back and redid ~3 'sequels' in matching editions - which sold out instantly - but then stopped);

 

- canceling series such as Rise of the Ynnari; Carcharadons, Iron Hands, Knightsblade series still due third books - planned?

 

- giving no information about the approx scope of series, eg: is Dawn of Fire a six book series? Twelve? Fifty-four?? so people know what they're 'signing up' to

 

- any form of honest communication on the delays/issues they're experiencing and that we can expect

 

- the erratic release schedules mentioned in previous posts whereby they release multiple titles or special editions in the same week and then nothing on others

 

- disappearance of audio dramas and other stories previously announced (Cypher boxset, Sabbathiel novel, Thomas Parrot's buried Master of Shadows, etc)

 

- the way they didn't handle the author reveals for final Siege novels (& release dates still), could've done years earlier and been exciting news, rather than just process of elimination etc 

 

- most new books being revealed via Amazon, Fnac, Simon & Schuster rather than BL announcing in good order

 

- the author 'interview' articles that are about three questions long and all of them bland and uninsightful

 

Basically, they are in desperate need for a dedicated BL marketer promoting and communicating their products, but it just feels like they don't even care. Which is such a shame. 

 

[DukeLeto69]

It does all feel a bit disappointing after some positive moves a few years back.

The new CEO stopped the rhetoric of being solely a miniatures company to recognising the potential value and exploitability of the GW IPs. There appeared to be recognition of the value divisions like BL bring to the table in extending the reach and scope of the IP. They brought in a specialist to look at how “stories” could be exploited for moving picture (TV, streaming, cinema etc) and an understanding that this all starts with writers/the writing.

The other thing that astounds me is that they appear to think the customers for different products are inherently different in their consumer behaviour.

They seem to accept that the TT gamers are collectors but do not seem to consider readers of BL fiction as collectors. 

I have been a GW customer since 1987. I have not bought a single mini or kit since about 2000. Yet I have spent £000s on printed books (novels, codexes, HH black books etc etc). And I collect these books. If I start a series in Hardback I want to complete it in HB. Ideally with cover art by same artist! I want a bit of uniformity to my book shelves. And I certainly don’t want FOMO or stress of limited print runs - for a novel no less!

If GW/BL push me down the route of ebooks they have lost me. I want tangible product for my collection just as those who collect and paint (and game) with miniatures!

[theSpirea]

11 hours ago, skylerboodie said:

- canceling series such as Rise of the Ynnari; Carcharadons, Iron Hands, Knightsblade series still due third books - planned?

- giving no information about the approx scope of series, eg: is Dawn of Fire a six book series? Twelve? Fifty-four?? so people know what they're 'signing up' to

I agree with all your points. Just wanted to comment on two:

Ynnari series was canceled due to low sales, this was confirmed directly by Gav Thorpe. I assume the similar happened to the others.

Dawn of Fire was originally announced as 9 part mega-series. Later GW/BL completely removed this info from their websites and no longer mention it. 

 

 

[skylerboodie]

Thanks for the clarification re: Dawn of Fire :)

Yes, I'd seen that Rise of the Ynnari was cancelled as such, just wish they'd put a bit more faith in some series, not all will sell like the Heresy or Abnett's but surely worth the investment for fleshing out the universe, especially once started down that road with Books 1 & 2. Particularly re: the Ynnari, the complete dropping of their storyline from main 40K no doubt had an impact on the appeal of the novels too; if they were actually still relevant to main events like originally intended (so it seemed) then there'd likely be more interest in learning more about their rise, I'd imagine. Just annoying to have two books of a trilogy...!

[Taliesin]

13 hours ago, skylerboodie said:

 

 

- the author 'interview' articles that are about three questions long and all of them bland and uninsightful

 

 

 

Its always remarkable how their author interviews are so short. You get excited when seeing it at the start of the article and then one scroll of your mouse, and thats it :)

 

[DarkChaplain]

6 hours ago, skylerboodie said:

Just annoying to have two books of a trilogy...!

Now imagine how I feel about them cancelling Time of Legends back then. War of Vengeance was set up as a 6 book series by Kyme (writing Dwarves) and Wraight (writing Elves). They both wrote one book, Kyme still with the 6-book-arc in mind, Wraight probably got the memo to 2x2 during the process. In the end they just did 3 books, having two setup novels and then C L Werner had to wrap it up in one follow-up. A war that was supposed to span decades in the narrative.

On the other side we had Josh Reynolds - always one of the unlucky authors whose projects got dropped or not marketed - with Blood of Nagash, writing two books, a novella split in two, and then the third book was in the planning stages when they dropped the series and put him to work on The End Times: Return of Nagash instead; he wove a few nods to Blood of Nagash into the first and then the final novel, but the BoN trilogy just ended at book two, with some of the plotpoints never actually resolved, mysteries established just to never be unveiled.

He basically had to share his plans on social media when people asked about them, and got whacked by GW's IP lords for it. Nice. But at least he gave people closure - that's more than we can expect for stuff like the Ynnari, or Phoenix Lords, or Eight Lamentations. Or Carcharodons. Or all the myriad one-offs that were obviously planned as "if this goes well, I have two more books sketched out" pilots. You can't tell me that Ian St Martin's Lucius wasn't supposed to get follow-ups, considering he also wrote a bunch of short stories to tie in with it, or that Khârn: Eater of Worlds was always intended as a standalone. And then there's stuff like them canning the Wrath of Magnus novel (to follow up on Curse of the Wulfen and Robbie MacNiven's serialized mid-section novel).

And that's not even counting projects in limbo, like Penitent was for the longest time, and Pandaemonium is right now. Or Horusian Wars. And does anybody remember that Nick Kyme started a second Salamanders trilogy, Circle of Fire, back in... 2014? It's as old as Talon of Horus, which also only had one sequel when it was originally marketed as ADB's Gaunt's Ghosts, a long-running series.

They also abandoned Space Marine Conquests at this point. Guess not following the strong design philosophy of Space Marine Battles along with Primaris priority really made those books get overlooked.

[Sothalor]

5 minutes ago, DarkChaplain said:

They also abandoned Space Marine Conquests at this point. Guess not following the strong design philosophy of Space Marine Battles along with Primaris priority really made those books get overlooked.

Could I get you to elaborate on this point slightly a la the design philosophy? Are you referring to how the books were written and what the narratives emphasized, or just something as simple as Jon Sullivan's fantastic SMB cover art?

[System Sound]

Reading DC's Post reminded me how many series got canned, mostly because of "not selling well enough", wich is mostly on uBL's for failing to market them...

We lost so many great authors because of :cuss: like this... What I woundnt give for more Fabius books.

While we have a lot of new faces recently, question is how long will they stick around before being moving on too?

[Felix Antipodes]

I believe that any publisher (not just BL) has a moral responsibility to finish a trilogy if they have published parts one and two even if it’s just as a cheap ebook.

Considering the current minuscule print runs of recent BL books I can’t see how they could claim low sales as an excuse to cancel a trilogy mid-series.  They sell every copy in quick time and then extend their profit via digital sales if you want the book.

[DukeLeto69]

@DC wait what? Pandaemonium is in limbo?!?!? Where you hear/figure that?

The delay to Penitent was as much Abnett driven as anything (inc his withdrawal from BL for various reasons).

We know he has had to focus on SoT8 as his priority. I always thought Bequin3 would come after SoT8.

[Knockagh]

All the cancellations have annoyed me but none so much as the Ynnari books. This was a ‘brand new’ eldar faction, a new power had been born in the pantheon. This was supposed to be massive. The eldar played a pivotal role in the move into the new setting and this was supposed to put flesh on that. It failed, this was meta narrative stuff. Not some insignificant battle amongst an ocean of battles.  The eldar have a foundational role in the galactic setting and they are just ignored. No author seems to want to touch them and no wonder when GW won’t even let a trilogy, about their biggest change, even be completed. Any author knowing this is unlikely to waste their time writing an eldar story, it’s unlikely to ever see light.

[DarkChaplain]

@Leto In limbo in so far as we don't know when it'll happen. Basically, it's coming when Abnett feels like it, with no clear schedule that's ever been communicated. He's got two Heresy books on his plate, one being the finale at least, and seems to favor Interceptor City. In the meantime he somehow managed to write the Vincula Insurgency, too. I would not in the least be surprised if we don't see Pandaemonium before 2025 at the pace BL and Abnett are going right now.

Re: Space Marine Battles' style, I was mostly refering to the white aesthetic with battle scenes at the bottom, wrapping around the book. The white spine with the Chapter design just stood out on any shelf, at home and in stores. It was much subtler than a lot of stuff we get now, where a lot of covers seem very busy.

Then there's of course Jon Sullivan's magnificent art - which he also did for Time of Legends, another series with very distinct cover designs, both through its matte black frames as well as foil lettering... a format they abandoned after releasing one book each into the second batch of trilogies, going for bland full-cover art). Sadly, they stopped working with Jon sometime through SMB, and the cover quality already suffered when he left; it never reached the same heights, and got noticeably less characterful.

Sullivan really nailed the grim darkness of the setting, the factions and what to expect from the book - and his art paired incredibly well with the pure white design, contrasting horror and brutality with it.

Space Marine Conquests then just tried to ape the idea of Chapter-specific novels in the post-8th era, but went completely generic with its design. It would never stand out in stores next to non-SMC books. Heck, to this day I don't know why they didn't slap the SMC-Logo onto Blood of Iax or Knights of Macragge.

 

And as for the "moral responsibility" to finish a trilogy a publisher started... I actually agree with that. You can make the case for a single book with a new author being a pilot to see how it gets received, but by the time you have a second book announced, you have to let the author finish it with book three. You can't just stop. And let's remember that a lot of books being published aren't exactly very profitable to begin with, but carried by the publishers' big sellers. It's the inherent risk a publisher has to deal with - but it's likely more costly to the better SFF houses to piss off the customer by cancelling trilogies midway than just publishing the book in a maybe reduced print run.

It's something that I find extremely telling about Black Library, actually: They don't seem to hold confidence in their authors, cashcows like Abnett and ADB aside.

When other publishers announce somebody new writing for them, they'll ooze excitement in their PR, promise a good time with their works, and don't really hide their previous works from the conversation either. They make it look like they want to work with them and publish their works - in BL marketing, the author is merely an afterthought behind the subject matter. And even that might not get well-presented (or even read by the marketing team).

Heck, some publishers even give pretty good prices on first books in a new trilogy, hardbacks no less. I remember buying Blackwing by Ed McDonald for under 15€ back then, and bought the entire Raven's Mark trilogy in the same hardback format as a result - all brilliant books in a real shiny design, with foil elements and what not. That was a standard hardcover release, where with BL, you'd pay out the wazoo for that level of bling. The publisher was clearly confident that this new series/trilogy would be worth buying and gambled on people buying it up - and they did. Ed's just released book one in his next, separate trilogy recently. I should check if the HB is as pretty and buy it, too, out of confidence in the author - one I would not have had if the publisher hadn't communicated it by taking risks.

....and I just checked what they did for that new book. They literally partnered up with another company to produce a GM Screen based on the book's art, for whatever reason. It's nuts, it's not cheap, but it speaks volumes about their confidence in this becoming a beloved series. I don't see this sort of stuff with BL - they barely even have miniature releases anymore; the recent two AoS character books being hopefully a shift in policy. I just don't think it likely they'll stick with it, and again it's going back to their main line of business with those minis. It's more confidence in the minis selling than the authors or their works being the focus.

[theSpirea]

I just wanted to say thank you for starting this thread. While it is sad and quite depressing reading it, it makes me feel better I'm not the only who feels this way about BL (many FB, Twitter, other forums posts feel the same).

I guess it all boils down to, as DC said, GW having no confidence in BL. They treat it a supplement to minis rather than its own thing. There's no marketing. I don't really consider occasional WH Community article a marketing. It only reaches selected audience. The "recent" Crime and Horror imprints didn't really get any promoting. This was supposed to attract new readership and introduce people to Warhammer worlds. I might have mentioned it in one of the previous posts, I travel and move a lot due to life/work reasons. I get to visit many countries and I always go to bookstores. I've never seen Crime/Horror advertised. When I asked about in the stores, they didn't even know they were selling those books. How does GW expect new readership to get to these books/find out about them? If you check Bestsellers rank on Amazon, Crime/Horror are waay behind your generic 40K novels.

I'm currently re-reading The Carrion Throne and not only this is one of the best BL books, it can easily compete, and beat, majority of current sci-fi novels. It's just so damn good. The quality is there, GW just needs to promote it better.

[Sothalor]

On 7/16/2022 at 6:21 PM, A Melancholic Sanguinity said:

Snagged a copy when pre-orders went live a few minutes before 10 my time.

Sorry to you fraters who weren't able to get a copy. I'd completely forgotten that it was going up for sale today. If you guys hadn't posted when you did, I would have missed out.

I know it's poor consolation, and this isn't intended to be gloating. Just wanted to say I really appreciate you good folks. As ever, the community here is frequently a better ambassador for BL than the company is.

Wow, I guess I spoke too soon about getting a copy. I ordered Dark City together with Twice-Dead King: Ruin. My order arrived today.

No Dark City. It's not even on the packing list of my order. Sent off an email to customer services with pics and receipts and everything, but... yeah.

Vaults of Terra is one of my favorite series in the 40k catalogue. I'd say The Dark City was one of my most anticipated books of the year, but that'd be a lie - BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T TELL CUSTOMERS THE DAMN THING WAS COMING. 

I mean, it was already ridiculous how quickly The Dark City went unavailable. But now even people who bought the bloody book aren't getting it? That's next level.