Thecaveman97 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 So I had a weird thought recently, and hear me out; The predator destructor isn't good. 2d3 Shots with D3 autocannons for 130 points just won't work...... but what if, you ran it as a Stalker. I mean, obviously it'd have to be casual, and your opponent would have to okay it, but for just about the same size (and 15 points cheaper), you get a Vindicator chassis (T8), 2x3 shots instead of 2d3, and you are somewhat protected against those goddamn harpies. Sure you lose a point of damage, but what does that matter if you roll 2 shots and the rhino you shot at makes a single 3+ save. Let's you bring that model you spent so long on off the shelf, maybe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 It would be a closer stand in for a twin linked lascannon Predator though, since they have the same profile, look the same and the whole thing. It'll be a way off but the twin linked lascannons are likely being upgraded for Codex Space Marines like the Chaos Marines version. XeonDragon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5849473 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 The Chaos Predator is clearly a big improvement over the Imperial version. Is it enough to make it viable? I am not certain but T8 is significantly tougher than T7 given the prevalence of S4 and S7/8 attacks. Helias_Tancred 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5849528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Yeah T8 is a benchmark I feel. Melts is a 50-50 gamble at that point. XeonDragon, Helias_Tancred and Karhedron 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5849656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 7 hours ago, Karhedron said: The Chaos Predator is clearly a big improvement over the Imperial version. Is it enough to make it viable? I am not certain but T8 is significantly tougher than T7 given the prevalence of S4 and S7/8 attacks. The Chaos Annihilator is ok. 130pts for the Twin Soulshatter is fine. Heavy Bolter sponsons are better because basic Lascannons are crap for their cost. The Destructor didn't change, besides the T7->8, and so they're still garbage: they're somehow still more expensive than the Annihilator despite the PAC being utter crap. The Destructor is basically still paying a premium for a 3D gun which was good back when it was first introduced, but now is pretty far behind the curve. 7/-1/3 is...ok as a profile, but the overall chassis and cost is not: 140pts for the Destructor, even at T8, is absolutely not worth it. The volume of fire is not nearly enough against any target: tough targets, the AP is too low; and the volume of shots is not enough to compensate against high Toughness or numerous bodies. It's a jack-of-all gun, but it's outdated and needs buffed to 9th Ed standards - like much of the Marine Codex. Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5849696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 The marine predators all need a points reduction, even if they get the CSM buffs when the second marine codex comes out this edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Helias Tancred said: The marine predators all need a points reduction, even if they get the CSM buffs when the second marine codex comes out this edition. I am not sure. 130 points for a T8 Predator with a Heavy2 D6+2 damage turret seems reasonably pointed. The Lascannon sponsons are still overpriced though. Edited August 4, 2022 by Karhedron Helias_Tancred and Kallas 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853359 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 Oh come now ... 120 sounds better ;) Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 23 hours ago, Karhedron said: I am not sure. 130 points for a T8 Predator with a Heavy2 D6+2 damage turret seems reasonably pointed. The Lascannon sponsons are still overpriced though. 130 seems reasonable for the Lancer, but still a tad too high for the Predator imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 I feel 130pts including the sponsons isn't too bad, with the Chaos Marines changes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 31 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said: I feel 130pts including the sponsons isn't too bad, with the Chaos Marines changes. 130 points including sponsons would be pretty good. Sadly the Sponsons are still extra, that is just the base cost. They seem to be taking baby steps in the right direction but they still seem to fundamentally over-value Marine vehicles compared to both their infantry and other races' vehicles. Maybe they expect AoC to pick up the slack. That does not seem right though. Is AoC actually in the CSM Codex? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 I believe it is still in the FAQs/Balance Dataslate only. AoC is great an all, but most people would find other tough units that also take advantage of AoC over a Marine vehicle, unfortunately. Karhedron and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Karhedron said: 130 points including sponsons would be pretty good. Sadly the Sponsons are still extra, that is just the base cost. They seem to be taking baby steps in the right direction but they still seem to fundamentally over-value Marine vehicles compared to both their infantry and other races' vehicles. Maybe they expect AoC to pick up the slack. That does not seem right though. Is AoC actually in the CSM Codex? Point changes for the sponsons could be fine. 130pts for the base, and then, say, 10pts for the Heavy Bolters, and 15pts for the Lascannons. 145pts for a Quad Las Annihilator isn't too bad, even if the sponson Lascannons aren't very good; and 140pts for Las/HB Annihilator is certainly tempting. Not gonna talk about the Destructor at the moment, don't have the energy to be annoyed at that weapon profile right now Karhedron 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Captain Idaho said: I believe it is still in the FAQs/Balance Dataslate only. AoC is great an all, but most people would find other tough units that also take advantage of AoC over a Marine vehicle, unfortunately. I agree. AoC is nice but much more effective on 2+ save units so even if you wanted to spam vehicles, I think the Vindicator would make a better starting point. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5853991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 5, 2022 Share Posted August 5, 2022 Totally in agreement there. Vindicators are cool of course! But variance is the spice of life and love my 2nd edition metal turret Predater Destructor! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375167-replacement-for-the-predator/#findComment-5854104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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