Pounds over Points

[Valkyrion]

I'm sure this has happened to our friends over the waters, but for the first time ever I've noticed that FW are selling things for a higher £ value than points value.
The Termite has a points value of 80-90 and is now priced at £98. The Proteus land speeder is technically more expensive too, by £1.50, but chances are you'll be running it with two heavy weapons, and the Scimitar jetbike with a heavy bolter (singular) is more expensive in £ than points, but the squadron is level. 

Just piqued my interest a bit. Are there any better/worse examples?

I don't think there are any plastic units more expensive in money than points?

[phandaal]

Depends which currency you use. Necron Flayed Ones cost more than 1 USD per point, and there are probably others. Low points cost units are going to be much more expensive to build in general.

[Halandaar]

16 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

I don't think there are any plastic units more expensive in money than points?

Cheap units will often start to run pretty close, especially if they also come in low model count boxes. Not so much now but back when Rhinos and Drop Pods were about 35 points each they were very expensive on a £:Pts ratio, and it used to be very common in Fantasy where you had stuff like 1-point Skeleton Warriors.

[Xenith]

Close one is the new Deimos rhino, £28 for 35pts. There's also the 40k/HH drop pod, which is £30 for 35pts. 

[MARK0SIAN]

Forgeworld have done this for a while with lots of things. At one point, a Krieg army was the most expensive 40K army you could get in terms of pounds to points, not sure if it still is with the plastics and the fact they gutted a lot of the range.

I don't know how they set their prices but I don't think pounds to points value has anything to do with it, nor does it seem is the issue of whether its a common unit you'll need a lot of to field an army. Back when I first started my Blood Angels Heresy force, it was cheaper to buy and combine the bits from 3 separate kits (Mk3/4 marines, Sang Guard & Death company/Assault Squad) to make an Assault marine squad than to buy the resin Forgeworld one.

Emperor help anyone who wants to do a Jetbike army!

[Valkyrion]

The monetary value of things has nothing to do with the points values, no, I just found it interesting that for the first time in my hobby time (that I can recall) things cost more in pounds than points. 

One would hope that GW will be working on plastic termites and jetbikes to make such RoW's possible.

Makes things like primarchs and super heavies seem reasonable!

[Xenith]

9 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

The monetary value of things has nothing to do with the points values, no

This is incorrect, though. GW has long abided by the 'Goblin Index' pricing method, where the more ubiquitous a thing for the army, i.e. the more of them you'll need, the cheaper it'll be. This is so they can make up the costs of the tooling and design etc for single characters for example, where you;re unlikely to buy more than one. It's the reason something like an infernal master costs £24 while an eliminator costs ~£8, despite using about the same amount of plastic. Same as a deimos rhino costing £28 to the infernal masters £24, despite using a lot more plastic - any one player is more likely to have 2+ deimos rhinos, where most people wont buy more than one master. 

[Valkyrion]

Yes, of course you're right, but I meant more FW rather than GW and that FW pricing seems to have little bearing on what the unit is, does, or how many you'll need - like a 10 man Imperial Fist squad for £150.

It could be quite an interesting experiment - like, how much money would you have to spend on Crimson Paladins (£73.50) to kill kill Lorgar (also £73.50)

[MARK0SIAN]

I’ve always wondered which legion has the most expensive Rite of War to build. The legion specific ones I mean. It’s probably not practical to do to a worthwhile degree as the only thing you could measure would be taking the minimum requirements for the rite but that wouldn’t make up a whole army generally. Even so though, it’s an interesting thought (at least for me)

[Valkyrion]

Most of the legion terminator squads are £73.50, the 5 man full resin squads £49.50 and the 5 man upgrade kits £25-30, but there are some outliers (Angel's Tears being the same price as Deathshroud)

Whichever rites let you run specific terminators as troops will likely be the most expensive, but I doubt anything would beat a Sky Hunter Phalanx because there aren't any real alternative models. At least with the Termite RoW you could fill the termites with ~£25 worth of plastic infantry, but a 2500 point sky hunter phalanx would make even Elon Musk think twice!

[Scribe]

I think the price points have finally broken me.

I was in the shop for a non-mini purpose, thought I would pick something up for fun, but it's passed the point of casual purchase.

[Deafbok]

Laughs in South African Rands

[Slave to Darkness]

I thought the prices were getting silly when I dropped £30 on ten witch elves to convert into Daemonettes, theres hardly any plastic to them and I dont take all the alt heads and arms as good value. 

On 7/25/2022 at 4:48 PM, Valkyrion said:

Lorgar (also £73.50)

Damn, how long have Primarchs been that much? 

[Azekai]

On 7/25/2022 at 2:25 PM, Scribe said:

I think the price points have finally broken me.

I was in the shop for a non-mini purpose, thought I would pick something up for fun, but it's passed the point of casual purchase.

I am in the same boat. I want to support the FLGS, but man, the prices are just eye-watering.

[Scribe]

1 hour ago, Azekai said:

I am in the same boat. I want to support the FLGS, but man, the prices are just eye-watering.

Yeah, I thought about it while I was there, and looked at the online store after, but I am priced out unless I plan now.

I used to walk in, grab a squad box for $50 Canadian, and walk out, no question, no worry.

Seeing some now push $70 just feels so much worse, and that doesn't even get into the big hitters over $200 Canadian like Knights.

I have more disposable income than ever, but either it's my age, engagement level (low) or the sticker shock, but I'm not feeling it.

[Xenith]

13 hours ago, Slave to Darkness said:

I thought the prices were getting silly when I dropped £30 on ten witch elves to convert into Daemonettes, theres hardly any plastic to them and I dont take all the alt heads and arms as good value. 

The Witch Elf price gouging debacle I think was one of the things that finally killed off WFB, in my opinion. With the 8th ed release, basic infantry units went to £30/10 models*, and in an edition that pushed and prioritised mass blocks of 40 infantry, you were suddenly looking at £120 for a single unit. Of which you'd need 3-4 to play, hence dropping like it was hot. 

 

*to expound, the goblin index saw basic core troop choices being ~£20 for a basic, decent unit, of 10-12 large (25mm base) models, or 16-20 small (20mm base) models, basically for like a decade. Dark Elf-gate suddenly changed this to £30 for 10 small models, increasing cost by 50%, and decreasing usability by 30%.

 

On 7/25/2022 at 4:48 PM, Valkyrion said:

Yes, of course you're right, but I meant more FW rather than GW and that FW pricing seems to have little bearing on what the unit is, does, or how many you'll need - like a 10 man Imperial Fist squad for £150.

It could be quite an interesting experiment - like, how much money would you have to spend on Crimson Paladins (£73.50) to kill kill Lorgar (also £73.50)

Yea, FW pricing seems a bit more related to the amount of resin you get. They were origianally cool display models, rarely used for gaming if that, so maybe/probably/definitely their price scheme is different to mainline Citadel. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Xenith

[Halandaar]

12 hours ago, Slave to Darkness said:

I thought the prices were getting silly when I dropped £30 on ten witch elves to convert into Daemonettes, theres hardly any plastic to them and I dont take all the alt heads and arms as good value. 

I'm fairly sure it's even worse than you remember and that Witch Elves were £35 when they came out!

47 minutes ago, Xenith said:

The Witch Elf price gouging debacle I think was one of the things that finally killed off WFB, in my opinion. With the 8th ed release, basic infantry units went to £30/10 models, and in an edition that pushed and prioritised mass blocks of 40 infantry, you were suddenly looking at £120 for a single unit. Of which you'd need 3-4 to play, hence dropping like it was hot. 

It was certainly the deciding factor in me not doing a Dark Elves army at the time because they were over and above even what they'd been asking for kits like Sisters of Avelorn, which were already expensive and at least those were a Rare unit rather than Core! GW were obviously quite badly burned by the backlash to Witch Elves because they didn't end up getting back to £35 for an 10-man core infantry squad until Primaris Marines. Not even Stormcast Eternals cost that much when they launched.

[phandaal]

4 hours ago, Xenith said:

*to expound, the goblin index saw basic core troop choices being ~£20 for a basic, decent unit, of 10-12 large (25mm base) models, or 16-20 small (20mm base) models, basically for like a decade. Dark Elf-gate suddenly changed this to £30 for 10 small models, increasing cost by 50%, and decreasing usability by 30%.

I had a Night Goblin army back in the day. Towards the end of WFB it was the epitome of "set up your giant army, let your opponent point at whole units for you to pick up and remove."

The move towards mass troop blocks and leaf blower lethality was already killing the game. Raising the price for that privilege was a nail in the coffin.

[Slave to Darkness]

42 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

I'm fairly sure it's even worse than you remember and that Witch Elves were £35 when they came out!

 

All the over priced boxes I have bought blur into one another... 

[toaae]

Mek Gunz cost more that $1 per point, but not quite more than a pound per point. But in 8th, they would have been close; a Smasha Gun Mek Gun was 33pts.

[Kassill]

On 7/28/2022 at 4:57 PM, Azekai said:

I am in the same boat. I want to support the FLGS, but man, the prices are just eye-watering.

 

True. I still have it in my head that characters/one off models are in the $10-15 range from when I was a kid and am still shocked to see them at squad level prices (or at least what units used to cost). For some reason, with the prices of non-gw things rising around us, I'm still surprised by model prices. It's a shame because, part of me feels some sort of guilt/shame if I only buy the very specific thing I needed at the flgs and not a random mini and some extra paint. But I just can't justify it most of the time... 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Kassill

[Lautrec the Embraced]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:25 PM, Scribe said:

I was in the shop for a non-mini purpose, thought I would pick something up for fun, but it's passed the point of casual purchase.

Wait, you guys were casual buying stuff in the shop? My modus operandi is usually browsing all possible internet sellers for weeks on end, years even, hoping to find some stray sprues for a discount. Gonna track all available sellers, every single option will be thoroughly checked and evaluated in comparison to the best purchases from the past and current alternatives. 

Only when all other option fail (or if it's a gift), you begrudgingly go to the local Temple of Mammon hobby store, only to succumb to a sudden fit of parsimony and instead solemnly ask the assistant if they have Nuln Oil (spoiler, they don't).

1 hour ago, Kassill said:

True. I still have it in my head that characters/one off models are in the $10-15 range

Very relatable feeling I might add. It's really hard to justify buying something that sometimes looks worse and has fewer options (looking at you primaris) than the awesome kit I bought 5 yrs ago for such a price. But, hey, for me it's not all doom and gloom, I've tracked a lot of very affordable sprues coming from all the big boxes in the recent years, playing marines surely helps