Deep Striking - go big or go home?

[Valkyrion]

Assuming you don't want to run the drop pod ROW, but you do want some Deep Striking, what's the best way forward - a unit or two of nuisances, or half your army?

If you just drop in a unit, say a Drop Pod full of Veterans, then your opponent is going to react to it, potentially devastatingly so.
But if you want to mitigate that risk then you need several units, which might mean a 3rd to half your army isn't on the battlefield until potentially turn 4, and therefore to mitigate that risk you're bringing Damocles or Signal Consuls for 100+ more points. 

Or is it really the case that if you want to deep strike then you need to use the appropriate RoW's to get anywhere?

[SkimaskMohawk]

It depends on the legion. Certain legions have rites, units, or wargear that allow for terminators or very durable units into deepstrike, allowing a relatively low points-high impact deepstrike.

But, those legions basically cause anti-reserve tech to show up, while the "ground" armies going for a bunch of deepstrike will probably have less contingency. You basically have to play your local meta; if they have a ton of intercept, probably don't try to force heavy deepstrike.

[Valkyrion]

I have an unpainted/unbuilt - drop pod, dreadnought drop pod, deathstorm drop pod and dreadclaw drop pod.
Maybe I could run those three pods as the basis of an allied Drop Pod Assault detachment?  I know quite a few RoW's preclude the use of allies, so it might see limited use, but it seems to me to be better running all those together for a turn one drop than having say the Dread Pod with my salamanders and the drop pod with my Emperor's Children.

Or, they can all go on ebay to fund future purchases more suited to what I already have.

[depthcharge12]

I would say no more than a single unit, which ignores rolling up a disordered result.

Most of your local meta will catch on to cheap augury scanners and a Master of Signal, the latter of which causes you to drop disordered on a 1-3.

Outflank might be underrated to bringing units in.

[Gorgoff]

11 hours ago, depthcharge12 said:

I would say no more than a single unit, which ignores rolling up a disordered result.

Most of your local meta will catch on to cheap augury scanners and a Master of Signal, the latter of which causes you to drop disordered on a 1-3.

Outflank might be underrated to bringing units in.

Although true Drop Pods allow you to re roll the dice to see if your deep strike is disordered.

[TheTrans]

**grumbles** stupid 10 point item ruining reserve play, night fight range limitations and infiltration all in one stupid cheap upgrade **grumbles** 

[Slips]

28 minutes ago, TheTrans said:

**grumbles** stupid 10 point item ruining reserve play, night fight range limitations and infiltration all in one stupid cheap upgrade **grumbles** 

Ah, but since only one model in the unit is carrying it, snipe it out and *poof* it goes. Also, 10pts is cheap for 1 unit, but upgrade 5-10 units and thats 50-100 points.

[Brofist]

After a few standard sized games, my take is that unless you have a null deployment list, you want a turn of shooting from your side of the table before dropping down into the enemy lines. Going either big or small is entirely viable.

[Mandragola]

I also agree that you don't need to go all in for deep strike. There are plenty of ways that a single unit can get work done. That said, you do have to worry about a single unit getting intercepted and blown away, so there are strategies that won't work well. A squad of 5-10 guys in power armour is likely to suffer a lot of damage on arrival, for example.

There are plenty of things you can do to mitigate this issue. Tools to prevent reaction look like they'll be seriously important in heresy generally, and particularly when you want to deep strike. One of the first picks for my RGs is a Librarian for the telepathy powers to switch off reactions and pin enemies.  Snipers to pick out the guys holding scanners are also going to be key. Whoever's there deployed on T1 should be picked in part for the ways that they can prepare the ground for your deep strikers - whether that's by getting a vox where you can see the drop point or by removing your opponent's defences.

[newmajorpanic]

1 hour ago, Mandragola said:

I also agree that you don't need to go all in for deep strike. There are plenty of ways that a single unit can get work done. That said, you do have to worry about a single unit getting intercepted and blown away, so there are strategies that won't work well. A squad of 5-10 guys in power armour is likely to suffer a lot of damage on arrival, for example.

There are plenty of things you can do to mitigate this issue. Tools to prevent reaction look like they'll be seriously important in heresy generally, and particularly when you want to deep strike. One of the first picks for my RGs is a Librarian for the telepathy powers to switch off reactions and pin enemies.  Snipers to pick out the guys holding scanners are also going to be key. Whoever's there deployed on T1 should be picked in part for the ways that they can prepare the ground for your deep strikers - whether that's by getting a vox where you can see the drop point or by removing your opponent's defences.

This. I suspect that a lot of Drop Pod ROW players, or people with deep strike-heavy armies, will be running Recon Squads and Vigilators with Nemesis bolters, both for pinning as well as killing off augury scanners. Alternatively - perhaps some of the artillery which causes pinning?

[xxxjtmxxx]

the problem is that with the drop assault row u dont have a turn to shot at the enemy to pin them down. iam also searching for a solution 

[SkimaskMohawk]

The deepstrike itself causes pinning, and can overlap with night fighting a decent amount of the time. Two of the three best deepstrike armies play on that further; dawnbringers do a -1 to LD, and night lords have all sorts of fear and extended night.

My BA buddy was really unhappy that I pinned all 3 of his units that could take the test, including his 10 man HSS with assault cannons and augury scanner 

Augury scanners didn't ruin most deepstrike or outflank, it just pushes people to be the most ruthless with them as they can be to get the most value. Pods are kinda the exception, and absolutely have a rough time. Then again, it's a skew list archetype and assumes you're taking complete advantage of it. Kinda of need to milk it for everything's it's worth with a kharybdis unit for charging, dreads/leviathans, and other durable infantry like terminators. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[xxxjtmxxx]

u cannot charge out of a dropped kharybdis, even it has assault vehicle.

[Brofist]

Ranged pinning helps, but honestly I'm thinking more transport cracking. If you're up against a mechanized force, all your deepstrikers are going to be charging vehicles, which probably isn't an ideal situation when the contents may counter charge you. Even a rhino will mitigate some of the advantages of deepstrike assault, but not without its own drawbacks.

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, xxxjtmxxx said:

u cannot charge out of a dropped kharybdis, even it has assault vehicle.

Yes you can, it's literally the last sentence of drop pod assault. 

 

[xxxjtmxxx]

2 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Yes you can, it's literally the last sentence of drop pod assault. 

 

u are right, only in an drop pod assault because this rule overwrites assault vehicle rule. but u can not when u only take an Kharybdis. i though u mean this. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

But it doesn't have deepstrike. The rite is the only way you can drop it in instead of it being a normal flyer.