Black Templars 2,000 pts Nephilim list

[CCE1981]

Playing with list ideas and came up with this:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [101 PL, 2,000pts, ] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) 

Chapter Selection: Black Templars

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: 4. Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim

Show Vows

+ HQ +

Chaplain [7 PL, 130pts, -3CP]: 4. Mantra of Strength, 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Bolt pistol, Chapter Command:  Master of Sanctity, Inspirational Fighter, Jump Pack, Litany of Hate, Stratagem: Heir of Sigismund, Stratagem: Relic, Stratagem: Warlord Trait, The Crusader's Helm, Warlord, Wise Orator

Primaris Techmarine [5 PL, 100pts]: Chapter Command:  Master of the Forge

+ Troops +

Assault Intercessor Squad [6 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: Fist of Balthus
. 4x Assault Intercessor: 4x Astartes Chainsword, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol
. Assault Intercessor Sgt: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power fist, Stratagem: Champion of the Feast

Heavy Intercessor Squad [8 PL, 155pts]: Hellstorm bolt rifle, The Crux Obsidian
. 4x Heavy Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Heavy Intercessor Sergeant

Infiltrator Squad [7 PL, 145pts]: Helix gauntlet, Icon of Heinmann
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine
. Infiltrator Sergeant

+ Elites +

Bladeguard Ancient [6 PL, 105pts, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chapter Ancient, Stratagem: Relic of the Chapter, The Armour Indomitus

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [11 PL, 185pts, -1CP]: Light of the Emperor's Grace
. 4x Bladeguard Veteran: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy Bolt Pistol, 4x Master-crafted power sword, 4x Storm Shield
. Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Skull of Cacodominus, Stratagem: Revered Repositories

Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts]: Multi-melta

Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts]: Multi-melta

Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 150pts]: Multi-melta

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 215pts]: Jump Pack, Sigismund's Seal
. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Vanguard Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Fast Attack +

Inceptor Squad [7 PL, 180pts]: 2x Inceptor, Inceptor Sergeant, Plasma Exterminator x2

+ Dedicated Transport +

Impulsor [6 PL, 110pts]: 2x Storm Bolters

Impulsor [6 PL, 110pts]: 2x Storm Bolters

++ Total: [101 PL, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

Curious what people think.  Thanks!

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Very mobile force, I like it !

[Tokugawa]

Very random weapon options. Almost every relic bearer upgrade go to the unoptimal target. 

Just pick an example and explain: 

Crux obsidian. The most popular relic bearer upgrade, and very useful. Grant -1dmg, but only to the model, not the whole unit. Which means you need to take wounds on this model first, for making the -1dmg relevant, and this model will die earlier than his teammates. Then this model could be revived by apothecary. Without apothecary, once the bearer model died, you will permanently lose that -1dmg ability.

So, the unit receive it usually should have: 

high threat, your opponent want to shoot it and you need to protect it.

higher wounds. 3W is the least, 4W if having champion of feast. Centurion could also be an uncommon candidate.

running together with pile of heroes, especially apothecary. 

BGV, Terminators or elite shooting units like eradicators are all good bearers. Vanvets are too fast and easily going out of revive range, so they prefer stuff like fist of Balthus instead.

 

The original post don't have apothecary at all and give this relic to an unit which hit like noodles and can't attract "hatred" from opponent. hmmm…

 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Marshal Mattias

[CCE1981]

Alright, can you be constructive?

The only relics that would be questionable are the ones on the Bladeguard and Infiltrator Squads.  I actually removed the Icon of Heinmen and gave the Chaplain a Powerfist.

Fist of Balthus on the Assault Intercessors is 10x attacks on the charge.

Sigismund’s Seal on the Vanguard allow them to be used as a missile to remove the biggest threat.

Crux Obsidian on the Heavy Intercessors is to make them that much harder to remove

 

[CCE1981]

 

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

Just pick an example and explain: 

Crux obsidian. The most popular relic bearer upgrade, and very useful. Grant -1dmg, but only to the model, not the whole unit. Which means you need to take wounds on this model first, for making the -1dmg relevant, and this model will die earlier than his teammates. Then this model could be revived by apothecary. Without apothecary, once the bearer model died, you will permanently lose that -1dmg ability.

So, the unit receive it usually should have: 

high threat, your opponent want to shoot it and you need to protect it.

higher wounds. 3W is the least, 4W if having champion of feast. Centurion could also be an uncommon candidate.

running together with pile of heroes, especially apothecary. 

BGV, Terminators or elite shooting units like eradicators are all good bearers. Vanvets are too fast and easily going out of revive range, so they prefer stuff like fist of Balthus instead.

 

Since you chose to edit instead of reply:

I understand your logic, but there are other ways to play.  Your right Heavy Intercessors aren't a huge threat, I don't want them to be.  They are there to grab a midfield objective, and make themselves as low a profile target as possible hence the Crux Obsidian.  

 

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

Vanvets are too fast and easily going out of revive range, so they prefer stuff like fist of Balthus instead.

Like Sigismund's Seal where they can take off on their own?

 

 

1 hour ago, Tokugawa said:

The original post don't have apothecary at all and give this relic to an unit which hit like noodles and can't attract "hatred" from opponent. hmmm…

Nice conclusionary statement there.

[Marshal Mattias]

=I= People posting lists are looking for constructive feedback. If you can't find a way to share your expertise without being disrespectful, please reconsider posting until you can do so within the forum rules. =I=

[Palmu]

He does have something of a point, in that some of the relic choices COULD be more optimized, if an optimal list is what the player is after, and they certainly don't have to be. Though in my opinion those would be the Icon and Light - The Seal and Fist are practically interchangeable so it makes no real difference where they go, and the Crux can basically go anywhere in a list where an Apo isn't present. Might as well be on the Firebase.

And an Apo could definitely be present, I'd guess that it would be a far bigger force multiplier than the Ancient could hope to be, and you could even give it the chainsword relic to absolutely make it so. But the Ancient looks ballin' as hell, so in matters of taste I can understand the inclusion.

Anyway - Icon on the Infiltrators, or on any unit without Storm Shields is, I believe, a technical waste, due to AoC - as they don't stack  It basically only changes AP1 to AP0, so 50% of the relic's effect does nothing. Stormshield units get the full affect instead due to not having AoC, and thus benefit more.

Light on the Veterans also has only one effect - The psyker malus, which may not even come to play. The Leadership doesn't factor in at all unless the enemy gives out negative modifiers or has Leadership-based effects, both of which are extremely rare. Lets say that the unit loses 4 members, leaving only the Sergeant - The Sergeant has Leadership 9, so he passes the morale check on a 5, and 6 always fails. Discipline 10 never factors in here.

On the Infiltrators the boost to Discipline COULD come to play every now and then, but the Psyker effect would admittedly be more difficult to activate, so it comes down to which part of the Light is more valuable.

[CCE1981]

8 hours ago, Palmu said:

He does have something of a point, in that some of the relic choices COULD be more optimized, if an optimal list is what the player is after, and they certainly don't have to be.

I was largely replying to his first two sentences.  After I pushed for him to be constructive he added the rest.  I love constructive feedback, and I relish to be forced to argue my thought process.  If I can’t argue it, or my argument is flimsy I need to make a change but statements like “obviously not a Black Templar player” aren’t helpful.  Give me an argument, make me defend myself, statements like that are pointless gat keeping.

 

With that out of the way.  I have dropped the relics from the Bladeguard and given them the Icon, a 2+ save against AP 0, 1, & 2 is big.  The Infiltrators no longer have a relic.  
 

I originally had the Ancient to give the Bladeguard and Assault Intercessors a 2+ to hit, I find the banner ability lackluster at best. A Primaris Apothecary with Selfless Healer and Armor Indomitus inhis place.  Though I cringe at spending CPs, I guess to resurrect tough models it should be worth it.

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The BGV must have SoJ. Trust me on this one.

Also thanks to the mod team for stepping in… it is greatly appreciated. :)