Fire Prisms - overcosted and outcompeted?

[Xenith]

Firstly, this is the third doomy and gloomy topic I've started, however this is from a place of interest, I'm having fun with the Eldar, and am trying to optimise my list. 

I love fire prisms, models are great, they're thematic and a seminal eldar unit, however at 165pts, I'm wondering what you actually get. Mine seem to chronically underperform. 

So 165pts gets you: 2 60", S14 shots for D3d3 (average 6), or an average 6 S6 D2 shots. 

I'm looking at the falcon and semi-humble pulse laser. For 145 you get 2 48" range shots at S9, Dd3+3 (average 5). If you add a bright lance, it becomes the same price as the prism, but gains an extra shot in addition to all the other boosts falcons get, like cloudstrike and transport capacity. 

On paper, I think the prism is massively outclassed by the humble falcon in terms of damage output. The prism does have the crazy high S, though, so will generally wound better than the Lances. I think this would largely be offset by the extra shot from the Falcon though. Maybe shooting T9+ stuff would see the prism pull ahead? However that's mitigated by fate dice. 

I've thrown together a rapid comparison of the two units at 165pts, a prism lfocussed shot v a falcon with pulse laser and bright lance. All numbers are assuming you hit and wound with all shots. While both units have the same damage cap of 18, the flat 3+3 damage on the lance and laser clinch it for me - just look at the minimum and average damage of the falcon compared to the prism! 

As it stands, I think the prism could drop down to base 145pts, the same as the falcon and the serpent to make things a harder choice.

Linked fire is a great strat, however very CP hungry. Really good if you need to annihilate something with a strong invuln, however many of the key units will have mitigation, like gloaming bloat morty, character protection abby and guilliman, norerolls custodes. The 2CP cost is also really bad for Nephilim missions, consuming 1/3 of your base CP.

What do you think?

 

Comparison of Prism and Falcon. For Falcon, slashed values are for the Pulse Laser/Bright Lance. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Xenith

[Karhedron]

I am inclined to agree. I think the Falcon has edged out the Prism as the default MBT. Cloudstrike and Transport capacity are really nice to have as well. I think Prisms only pull ahead if you know you are going to be go big game hunting. Against Knights, reanimating CORE Silent Kings and the like, they will probably do more work but even then, it will be a cost of CPs to power the stratagem.

[Toldavf]

The wave serpent has only slightly less firepower for the same price while being significantly tougher and having a much improved transport capacity. Niether tank shines comparatively but at least a pair of prisms can ignore invuns in a pinch. 

[Xenith]

Yea, the link fire rule is one of the stronger ones, but also one that requires heavy investment, and luck in terms of terrain and going first, to have a T7 tank not die. That's before we get to each link shot eating 1/3 of your starting CP in Nephilim. 

I think if you take one prism, you should take two to link fire - otherwise a falcon, or indeed a serpent is a stronger prospect. Two prisms then seriously eat into your HS slots leaving little/no room for other fun stuff. 

[Karhedron]

Armour of Contempt and the buffs to the Leman Russ make the AP-5 of the Fire Prism's Focussed profile look pretty relevant. Even targets like a Land Raider will be fishing for 6s.

[Xenith]

I played against guard yesterday and the AP-5 was useful - The Leman Russ went to AP-4 with AoC, then onto a 6+ save, while it would have gotten a 4+ save against a pulse laser. The S14 also helped against T7 tanks - the almost guaranteed wound from the prism (5/6, backed by CP reroll) let me use my auto wound fate dice for the lances that only wound russes on a 4+. The 3D3 thing is still so unreliable, but I guess you have to accept the low rolls with the occasional 8 damage spike. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Xenith