Salamaders Upgrading a Twin linked heavy flamer or combi flamers with dragon breath?

[Misterduch]

Hi, question.

The Loyalist Liber calls out the flamer pistol, flamer, heavy flamer and the flame storm cannon as being eligible to be upgraded to the dragon breath versions ( +1S, AP4 across the board ).

But what about a twin linked heavy flamer? It isn't a listed weapon in the common weapons section, 

Is this just a case of RAW it being illegal ( until a potential FAQ ) but if played by intent it being ok if discussed with other player?

 

In regards to combi  flamers I just assume its a no go but I find it better to ask what others about what they think

[Spagunk]

In the past (HH1.0), weapons similar to this are usually replaced completely and lose the Twin-linked portion. Case in point being the Deredeo TL heavy flamers which were replaced with only a single assault cannon for both Imperial Fists and Blood angels.

However I don't see any similar ruling or reference to that in HH2.0. So I am not entirely sure what the convention is until someone found a rule reference I hadn't seen.

That said, my knee jerk reaction is to say it replaces the entire weapon. So a formerly TL heavy flamer just becomes a non-TL dragons breath version and does not carry over the twin linked part.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Spagunk

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

See I'd have gone for the opposite and said if you upgrade a TL weapon it keeps the TL. 

Like if you upgrade a fists LR Hull mounted TL H flamer to AC, model wise you still have 2 cannons sat on it

(yeah I know it's a 40k model, but that's what I would use weapon wise). 

 

[Valkyrion]

Look at the paragraph above - LA:S can replace Heavy Bolters with Dragon's Breath Heavy Flamers or Twin Linked Heavy Bolters with Twin Linked Dragon Breath Heavy Flamers.

It's a circuitous route, but most options that allow you take Heavy Flamers also allow you take Heavy Bolters, so you could swap the Twin Linked Heavy Flamer for a Twin Linked Bolter to then replace that with a Twin Linked Dragons Breath Heavy Flamer.

e.g - Proteus Explorator - its 20 points for adding twin linked heavy flamer, but only 5 points for adding twin linked heavy bolter, so add the heavy bolters and use the LA:S rule to get even better heavy flamers for 15 points cheaper!

I'd also argue anyway, probably incorrectly, that a TWIN LINKED X WEAPON doesn't actually exist, rather it's a weapon with the Twin Linked Type, just like Shred or Gets Hot. 
If you look at the Armoury, no weapons are called Twin Linked. 
If the rules said something like - all FLAME weapons get Shred, then you'd not argue that a Twin Linked Heavy Flamer wasn't a flame weapon.

[Misterduch]

40 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

Look at the paragraph above - LA:S can replace Heavy Bolters with Dragon's Breath Heavy Flamers or Twin Linked Heavy Bolters with Twin Linked Dragon Breath Heavy Flamers.

It's a circuitous route, but most options that allow you take Heavy Flamers also allow you take Heavy Bolters, so you could swap the Twin Linked Heavy Flamer for a Twin Linked Bolter to then replace that with a Twin Linked Dragons Breath Heavy Flamer.

 

 

Huh, seems I missed that part. Thanks mate

Edited July 28, 2022 by Misterduch

[Spagunk]

5 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Look at the paragraph above - LA:S can replace Heavy Bolters with Dragon's Breath Heavy Flamers or Twin Linked Heavy Bolters with Twin Linked Dragon Breath Heavy Flamers.

It's a circuitous route, but most options that allow you take Heavy Flamers also allow you take Heavy Bolters, so you could swap the Twin Linked Heavy Flamer for a Twin Linked Bolter to then replace that with a Twin Linked Dragons Breath Heavy Flamer.

e.g - Proteus Explorator - its 20 points for adding twin linked heavy flamer, but only 5 points for adding twin linked heavy bolter, so add the heavy bolters and use the LA:S rule to get even better heavy flamers for 15 points cheaper!

I'd also argue anyway, probably incorrectly, that a TWIN LINKED X WEAPON doesn't actually exist, rather it's a weapon with the Twin Linked Type, just like Shred or Gets Hot. 
If you look at the Armoury, no weapons are called Twin Linked. 
If the rules said something like - all FLAME weapons get Shred, then you'd not argue that a Twin Linked Heavy Flamer wasn't a flame weapon.

Right, it's not called out in the armory. But instead, the unit entries will list "Twin Linked <something weapon>" as part of their wargear. So instead of it saying "Heavy flamer" with the twin-linked type, it's labeled appropriately. That, I think, is what is confusing most.

I wouldn't have a problem converting a TL anything to something else. My only point for bringing it up was that in the past you typically lost the TL nature when swapping to unique weapons. None of that texts exists now from what I see so maybe they do transfer the TL part of the weapon. Who really knows until we get an FAQ that might address that.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone who does, personally. As long as they're not being rude about it, I think it's fine to xfer the TL to the dragons breath.

[Canadian_F_H]

It seams that "twin-linked (weapon)" is more of a modifier on a weapon, than a weapon in its own right, since they aren't listed in the armoury.  So it seams reasonable to expect that the intention is to allow the exchange of those weapons.  This similarly effects iron warriors Shrapnel weapons.  In the past I believe we could just change out the twinlinked heavy bolters on land raiders for twinlinked heavy bolters with shrapnel bolts.

Hopefully they address this in a FAQ.  And it needs to be a BIG FAQ.  So many issues have been raised already.