I'm told I should fit in a RW Apothecary, but not sure what to cut.

[ValourousHeart]

I'm having trouble figuring out what to cut from my list to fit in a RW Apothecary.  I'm also told I should spring for the Chief Apothecary and Selfless Healer, so 135 points.

1940 points

• Talonmaster (WLT - Brilliant Strategist, Relic - Eye of the Unseen)
• Primaris Chaplain on Bike (WLT - The Imperium's Sword, Relic - Benediction of Fury)
• 10 RWBK (10 Plasma, 10 Corvus)
• 3 Outriders
• 3 Outriders
• 3 Invaders (2 MM, 1 Gatling)
• 3 Tornados (3 AC, 2 HB, 1 MM)
• 3 Tornados (3 AC, 2 HB, 1 MM)
• 3 Typhoons (3 HB, 3 TML)

Also I often field just the bikes as a 1000 lists.

995 points

• Primaris Chaplain on Bike (WLT - The Imperium's Sword, Relic - Benediction of Fury)
• 10 RWBK (10 Plasma, 10 Corvus)
• 3 Outriders
• 3 Outriders
• 3 Invaders (2 MM, 1 Gatling)

[Vulshra]

I'd say drop one typhoon should do it, as that will give you enough points without loosing too much in the list

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Dropping a Typhoon would also be my first choice.

Second would be dropping as many RWBK as needed.

[ValourousHeart]

On 7/30/2022 at 11:38 AM, Vulshra said:

I'd say drop one typhoon should do it, as that will give you enough points without loosing too much in the list

I haven't had a chance to try out the new list, but the Typhoon does sound like a good choice for the 2000 point list.  Thank you.

On 8/1/2022 at 8:38 AM, Chaplain Lucifer said:

Dropping a Typhoon would also be my first choice.

Second would be dropping as many RWBK as needed.

For the 1000 point list dropping some RWBK don't feel like a good choice.

The 10 man RWBK unit has 30 wounds that are T5, 3+, 5++ and have Armor of Contempt.

Lots of lists are geared to take out a Knight in a single turn, so let's assume the opponent has built a list that can do just that, but also knows their list will need to deal with marine, so the damage is able to be distributed well to non-single-model units.

In fact the person who made the recommendation that I bring an Apothecary with Selfless Healer was able to take out 10 RWBK in a single turn with his list.  Add was able to do it with a small enough section of his list, that he could have easily fit into a 1000 point list.

The RW Apothecary is 100 points or 135 points with Selfless Healer, the RWBK are 35 points each, so 3 or 4 RWBK depending upon how the Apothecary is specked.

Assuming the same results of 30 successful wounds past the RWBK 3+, 5++ and Armor of Contempt, all we have to calculate is the amount of damage saved by the Apothecary's 6+++.  The math is simple here, it is 5 wounds saved, but I would have sacrificed 9 to 12 wounds of RWBK to get that 6+++, and only gained 5 wounds from the Apothecary.

So if I don't take Selfless Healer, the 7 RWBK are wiped out and the Apothecary is on his last wound.  If I do take Selfless Healer, then the 6 RWBK and the Apothecary are wiped out with 2 more points of damage applied someplace else that slipped past a 3+, 5++, 6+++, armor of contempt save.

 

Did I make a mistake on that analyses?

[phandaal]

If your opponent can take out 35% of your army in a single round of shooting or combat, you are toast regardless of whether you have an apothecary or not.

Also, the Apothecary is not part of the RWBK unit. Damage done to that unit does not spill over to your apothecary. Keep him out of line of sight or combat.

[ValourousHeart]

I understand that damage doesn't spill over.

However I was making the assumption that the list was built to fight Marines and Knights.  Therefore the damage was efficient enough to deal with lots of 2-5 wound models while also being able to get past T8, 3+, 5++, -1 Damage in order to deal 24-30 damage over the course of a single turn.

I don't think that is an unreasonable bar, because the 1000 point half with 10 land speeders up there can drop a Knight in one shooting phase.

In the game I played it took both shooting and assault to deal that much damage to the RWBK.  It was before an apothecary would have time to mitigate the damage with anything over than the the 6+++ passive aura.  And he still had a War Dog that hadn't attacked in assault yet even if you want to assume that the player wasn't able to split their attacks well.

 

[phandaal]

1 hour ago, ValourousHeart said:

In the game I played it took both shooting and assault to deal that much damage to the RWBK.  It was before an apothecary would have time to mitigate the damage with anything over than the the 6+++ passive aura.  And he still had a War Dog that hadn't attacked in assault yet even if you want to assume that the player wasn't able to split their attacks well.

 

Yeah some armies are just going to obliterate a unit like RWBK. An apothecary would help a lot more if that list was going into something like Deathwing where the added toughness could be all you need to keep the unit going.

You know this, but Ravenwing are not an "anvil" list. I would go for more firepower rather than more toughness. As many Multi-meltas as the list could hold, basically. Then pop your buddy's Knights one by one.

Edited August 3, 2022 by phandaal