Should they do compliant and non-compliant codexes?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

It would help decongest the release schedule if they didn’t have to release the main codex and a bunch of supplements or stand alone codexes for every gene line.

and the chapters in each can have specialist units.

compliant: UM, IF, WS, RG

Non compliant: DA, BA, SW

Not to mention marines being the most common faction but one book

 

Also think all first founding chapters deserve 2 characters, and 1 unique unit minimum.

[Blindhamster]

Blood angels are officially a compliant chapter. They follow the codex astartes as much as the curse allows them to. 
 

as far as all chapters deserving units and characters go, sure, it would be good. But then shouldn’t the same be true of every subfaction of every army?

[Subtleknife]

No I like now that each of the main chapters get their own supplement.

[Brother Tyler]

Two (or more) different codices where 90% of the rules are the same would be wasteful. I think the current arrangement is fine - have a single codex that covers the vast majority of rules for Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, then cover where Chapters differ from the norm in their codex supplement. Any arrangement is going to have its pros and cons, but I like the simplicity of the current setup. When something changes, the change only has to be promulgated in one book instead of being spread across multiple books (or the risk of inconsistency when a change isn't applied across all of the multiple books).

The primary con of the current arrangement is that most hobbyists have to buy at least two books - the main codex and a codex supplement. That is probably the only real con that I can think of, affecting individuals' budgets in what is already an expensive hobby. The advantages of the current arrangement have to do with consistency, ease of updating, more room for Chapter-specific lore in codex supplements, and cost at X Chapters (i.e., since codex supplements are cheaper than the codex, there is a point at which hobbyists that buy multiple codex supplements break even and then come out ahead - I think we calculated that it was at 3 codex supplements).

Having a dedicated codex (vice codex supplement) doesn't automatically engender X number of characters/special units. In fact, with less duplicated content in codex supplements, it's probably easier to include more Chapter-specific units. The number of unique units instead derives from studio focus, both in terms of models and rules.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The current arrangement is fine. To change it now would just be another annoyance.

[Lemondish]

13 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

compliant: UM, IF, WS, RG

Non compliant: DA, BA, SW

So do I just have to buy them all to run Deathwatch ?

[Marshal Reinhard]

16 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

compliant: UM, IF, WS, RG

Non compliant: DA, BA, SW

Missing the black templars and deathwatch but I guess that's because you only look at first founding? Even so, sallies and iron hands being left out to dry.

And while we still have this, admittedly rather antiquated system of releasing an expensive book, for updated rules, i suppose it's prefferable to have a big book for the 'everything' and then a special book for your particular unique units and lore bits. Otherwise could just permanently stick to a index system. 

But really, rules updates should be freely available. The announcement of new editions and updates (meaning more books to buy) shouldn't be met with an all too often sigh of "here we go again"

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

10 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

Blood angels are officially a compliant chapter. They follow the codex astartes as much as the curse allows them to. 
 

as far as all chapters deserving units and characters go, sure, it would be good. But then shouldn’t the same be true of every subfaction of every army?

Yes they follow the codex as much as the curse allows them, but the curse requires them to deviate quite a bit.

39 minutes ago, Reinhard said:

Missing the black templars and deathwatch but I guess that's because you only look at first founding? Even so, sallies and iron hands being left out to dry.

And while we still have this, admittedly rather antiquated system of releasing an expensive book, for updated rules, i suppose it's prefferable to have a big book for the 'everything' and then a special book for your particular unique units and lore bits. Otherwise could just permanently stick to a index system. 

But really, rules updates should be freely available. The announcement of new editions and updates (meaning more books to buy) shouldn't be met with an all too often sigh of "here we go again"

Was just giving examples, and wasn’t trying to provide an exhaustive list

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

40 minutes ago, Reinhard said:

Missing the black templars and deathwatch but I guess that's because you only look at first founding? Even so, sallies and iron hands being left out to dry.

And while we still have this, admittedly rather antiquated system of releasing an expensive book, for updated rules, i suppose it's prefferable to have a big book for the 'everything' and then a special book for your particular unique units and lore bits. Otherwise could just permanently stick to a index system. 

But really, rules updates should be freely available. The announcement of new editions and updates (meaning more books to buy) shouldn't be met with an all too often sigh of "here we go again"

I don’t know anyone who feels that way about new editions.

[Helias_Tancred]

I like the current arrangement of one base Marine codex and then separate supplements. 

 

There needs to be at least two unique characters per marine faction. Most already have it, but a few still do not. If anything it would be a cross-marketing opportunity shared with Black Library to write up some material with the new characters in it. At least all of the first founding chapters now have decal sheets, that was always a gripe I had lol.

 

And yeah future updates should be free. 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Helias Tancred

[Medjugorje]

I would prefer an additional small ruleset inside the codex for IF, UM, WS, RG, IH and Salamanders while the more divers chapters get a supplement.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Medjugorje

[Marshal Reinhard]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

I don’t know anyone who feels that way about new editions.

Just have a brief look at the 10th edition rumor thread

[Orange Knight]

One book is enough for all Astartes and all Chapters if they only include Primaris. In general the range is too big and too unwieldy if they continue to support the Firstborn. The two model lines aren't visually or thematically compatible and the gulf between them has only widened, in my opinion. I will never run any of the classic units in 40k due to the visual disparity alone, and they take up around half the pages in the codex and should be moved onto Legends (but Legends should be more akin to the Legacy PDF used in the Horus Heresy). Again, I'm aware that a few specific units are still missing from the Primaris range - for example Primaris Jump packs, as well as some Chapter themed units that can fill roles in BA, DA, and SW armies. The Primaris are the symbol of 40k Astartes going forward - visually very distinctive from the more common Imperium armies and the way the units function and the design ethos around their vehicles and technology is distinctive.

I should add that I have heavily invested in a 30k force in the last month or so, and my opinion is not coming from a negative position. I actually have around 4000 points of Horus Heresy units at this point (3k of which still needs to be painted) so I still see a bright future for the classic Marines as they dominate the 30k settings - Crusade, Heresy and Scouring. I think the 30k range is simply put, the best range of non-Primaris models that have been released for the Astartes line.  I simply don't feel it is a good idea for GW to continue support for 3 entire yet separate Astartes ranges in perpetuity.

Edit: I am aware that some of these opinions are contentious. I'm simply voicing what I believe to be the best solution to the avalanche of Codex and supplement books that are being drip-fed to us throughout an edition by condensing and streamlining the Astartes range.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Orange Knight

[Slave to Darkness]

Ultramarines dont need an extra book, they are THE codex compliant chapter, and thats what the space marine codex is there to represent. 

 

But going back to the point of compliant/non compliant codex books. Isnt that what we have at the moment? Codex books to show how the other chapters differ from the Ultramarines? As for each chapter needing unique characters and at least one squad kit, we have enough marines spread between the primaris and firstborn marine ranges and thats just gonna get worse with the rumored 10th edition and the usual marine kits that follow an edition change and the whole HH train will bring us even more kits...

 

Lets have some sub faction rules and kits for other races for a change, I wanna see rules and kits for Steel Legion/Praetorian Guard and Biel Tan Eldar.

[Black LObster]

Personally I think the SM codex should be split into a Primaris codex and a non-Primaris codex. 

[Karhedron]

42 minutes ago, Black LObster said:

Personally I think the SM codex should be split into a Primaris codex and a non-Primaris codex. 

What would be the benefit of that though? I know some players complain that redundancy leads to weaker units being ignored in favour of stronger ones but from a faction perspective, Marines are certainly not overpowered. Splitting them in two will not achieve much apart from annoying players who field a mix of units.

[Pirate Empress]

I actually feel there's too many codexes/supplements right now. None of the Adeptus Astartes need their own supplement, zero. None of the Eldar need their own separate codex. Forces of the Hive Mind don't need separate books. Most of all, Chaos doesn't need more than one codex simply because the logistics of the faction rarely allow for just one subfaction to be present in a battle. 

[lansalt]

A single book for all chapters would be enough for marines if they streamlined units and stopped having stupid duplicates like multiple Predator or Land Speeder datasheets for each variant. The Liber supplements of the Horus Heresy game are proof of that.

 

[Orange Knight]

There is no reason to separate any of the chapters. All loyalist Astartes can fall under one codex, but the book needs to be streamlined and units need to be cleared out.

The Horus Heresy Liber books are massive, and the 40k codex doesn't need to be that big.

 

Honestly for me it's a simple case of clearing out the Firstborn. I don't know if they need a separate codex, or just a Legacy PDF the way the HH handles some units. Also some unit streamlining is required on the Primaris side is also required. EG: All the Primaris Captain variants should be one datasheet, the same goes for all the Gravis Captains, and the Primaris Chaplain (the bike should simply be an option). etc etc

[lansalt]

The Firstborn units are still fully part of 40k both in the fluff and in other media. They don't need to go anywhere, and it's better to need a big book than several ones to keep track of things, IMO.

 

 

[Orange Knight]

Nothing NEEDS to be done, but changes SHOULD be made.

There are too many negatives associated with the way GW is currently doing things. Codex creep is one thing, but book bloat and sub factions being left behind are other equally frustrating problems. Take my Imperial Fists that are yet to see any new rules in the entirety of 9th edition.

GW already took the step of creating a single core codex for all loyalist Astartes. 

There is also another option - a core codex and a single supplement that features all the Chapter specific units and characters. That means all Astartes players would need 2 books, but would then have access to all Astartes rules and all chapters would be updated simultaneously.

[Slave to Darkness]

I think firstborn going legends or something similar would just mean the end of firstborn, People will see them as past it, and there is still plenty of people who only collect old marines. There is still the mentality of 'if its not in a codex it dont count', and would you trust GW to update the PDF or will they just vanish into obscurity? Will all the strats or wargear that affect firstborn be in the PDF or in the marine codex? If they are in the codex then that forces people to buy the book regardless... 

 

I think its a case of GW being damned if they do and damned if they dont. Personally Id love a firstborn only codex as I have no interest in the primaris range and Im paying for half of a book that Id never look at let alone use, but some people play mixed armies so they will have to buy 2 books, and then would the supplement have firstborn rules units if they split the codex books, will we have Codex supplement Primaris Blood Angels and Codex supplement Firstborn Blood Angels...  Either way we will end up buying one massive expensive book or a few smaller but just as expensive books... 

 

As the new firstborn HH marines are almost the same size, they should change them to 'Space Marines' in 10th ed, no firstborn, no primaris, just marines. So we will have marine tactical and intersesor (?) squads using the basic marine statline but using different equipment loadouts representing specialisation between units. Not the best way of doing it as there will be many squads fighting for place in your army and some will be better than others, but thats no different to what we have now with some factions at least that way they are not splitting the player base. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There is absolutely no reason to mothball firstborn. I also highly doubt geedub will put everything in one book…. Especially how long it took to finally get separation between chapters.

[Orange Knight]

If they don't make changes then all the same problems will continue into the next edition.

Bloat, redundancy, lack of balance and frustration for players.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They have actually reduced bloat regarding SM.