Leviathan Dreadnoughts - Loadouts and Tactica

[9x19 Parabellum]

So I just picked up the plastic melee dread.

I have a resin dreadnought that I bought from FW with Grav Flux and a Storm Cannon, as well as siege claw.

Trying to figure out how to equip these 2 guys.  Do you think specialist dreads are better? (ie, 1 shooty dread and 1 full melee dread). Or should I give them both one primary gun and leave the off hand for krumpin?  I definitely see the advantage of all shooting, but its hard to forego the melee arm and waste all that muscle, too.

 

Thoughts?

[Stitch5000]

Bearing in mind that Leviathns with two melee weapons get a fat 7 attacks on the charge, they look mighty tasty. 

IF or BA can also take the "nipple mounted" iliastus cannons, in addition to fist meltas and a phosphex discharger, so have a not inconsiderable shooting payload too!

 

[9x19 Parabellum]

Shoot, I didn't even think about the fact that they got the additional +1 attack for having 2 weapons.   And I mean, they still have 2 meltagun shots and 2 chest guns and the phospex so they do have some shooting even when they aren't dedicated to shooty.

I'll have to keep this in mind.

[bushman101]

I give my Leviathan the Siege Drill and Melta Lance. Having a large gun and a melee weapon always keeps it relevant on the board.

I should also mention that I have been starting mine on the board, haven't used my Dread Drop Pod this edition.  If you Pod yours, I can understand double melee weapons more.

[Misterduch]

I feel like full melee ( 1 drill, 1 claw ) or melee + Lance/Storm cannon are the best loadouts.

I honestly just don't like the graviton bombard atm

[arnesh88]

I think either full melee or gun/melee are best options. Going double guns is very risky due to their short range, making it easy to tie up with even a basic tactical squad.

After that, it's tough to say what is best load out for your army, as it depends what the role you want for them. If dreads are the "theme" for your list, then go with a variety of loadouts and options. If they are not the center of your list, my general rule of thumb is to equip them for what your army is lacking. For example, my lists were lacking melee threat as it is going mechanized (tanks/transports), and even though I have a single Legion-specific melee unit, having another tough unit to hold midfield objectives and bully things around I felt rounded out my list a bit better, so I went with Siege Claw, Siege Drill (5 points totally worth the upgrade), and phosphex launchers because I have the points to fit them in and they're just pretty overall good.

TL;DR - Equip them for what your army is lacking, but probably avoid dakka leviathans

[Slips]

Yeah, unlike 40k, a Double Gun Leviathan isnt as great as it seems since without a Claw or Drill, its very easy for it to become rendered ineffective by a tarpit or just bopped by another dread or model with a CCW able to push damage through.

[bushman101]

If you're considering double gun, I think the Deredeo is a better option.  Cheaper chassis,  cheaper gun upgrades, and free missiles stock.

[Balthamal]

Having had a couple of games now I honestly can't do without the claw. Brutal 3 on at least 5 attacks is bonkers good unless it's a high WS model. The lance is devastating but has the relatively short range to handicap it. But that's currently my go to combo

[Tyriks]

11 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

Bearing in mind that Leviathns with two melee weapons get a fat 7 attacks on the charge, they look mighty tasty. 

IF or BA can also take the "nipple mounted" iliastus cannons, in addition to fist meltas and a phosphex discharger, so have a not inconsiderable shooting payload too!

 

The bonus attack for 2 weapons is baked into the profile, so you don't get 6 attacks for having two weapons. 

[Gorgoff]

18 hours ago, Stitch5000 said:

Bearing in mind that Leviathns with two melee weapons get a fat 7 attacks on the charge, 

 

No, it's 6.

Nevermind it was answered already.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Gorgoff

[Mandragola]

Definitely gun and claw for me. I've got one with double storm cannons at the moment so the logical thing would be to get the melee one and share out the arms differently.

I'm not all that impressed by any of the guns. The storm cannon is fairly good but not that impressive for a ~300 point model. The Phosphex discharger is pretty nasty.

Leviathans are not fast and can't run. I think the best use for them is to dominate the midfield, stamping about and deterring (or massacring) enemy attacks. There's almost nothing that can stand up to one and even most Primarchs will be worried - though do watch out for massed rending attacks.

Drop pods might be worth considering. It's odd that it can have a Kharibdys but not a dreadclaw, as either can carry it - and really the dreadnought pod is the best option. Bear in mind it doesn't automatically come on T1 and can't assault after deploying (even from the Kharibdys despite it being an assault vehicle) unless you're using the drop pod RoW. I prefer it in the midfield role though.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well, a Levi will reach the midfield by about turn 2, the same time a pod will hopefully come down. The pod can go much further, but as you said, limits charging. 

I think the thing to consider is whether you want to move up with your army and do more zone control, or if you want to plop it down where it can just be a threat. The former is better against drop lists; the latter against gun lines.

 

Not sure how you're unimpressed by the melta lance; it's 4 shots on a bs 5 model. Granted it ain't no Magna melta, but those things are more than a little overtuned.

Edited August 3, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[Mandragola]

18 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Well, a Levi will reach the midfield by about turn 2, the same time a pod will hopefully come down. The pod can go much further, but as you said, limits charging. 

I think the thing to consider is whether you want to move up with your army and do more zone control, or if you want to plop it down where it can just be a threat. The former is better against drop lists; the latter against gun lines.

 

Not sure how you're unimpressed by the melta lance; it's 4 shots on a bs 5 model. Granted it ain't no Magna melta, but those things are more than a little overtuned.

It's the 18" range. Anything it can get into melta range of it's also in charge range of. That said, it's only 6" less than the storm cannon and 4 melta shots hurt most things far more than 6 autocannon shots. Honestly I also find it the least interesting-looking of the guns, which is probably a factor.

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Mandragola said:

It's the 18" range. Anything it can get into melta range of it's also in charge range of. That said, it's only 6" less than the storm cannon and 4 melta shots hurt most things far more than 6 autocannon shots. Honestly I also find it the least interesting-looking of the guns, which is probably a factor.

Well the leviathan has always been a short ranged beast in 30k. Phosphex, Lance, and grav flux are 18", hand meltas are 12", heavy flamers are templates, and cannons are 24". The only outlier is the volkite.

It's why Levi's in pods were such a staple of 1st, as you dropped into range and just unloaded on a unit. 

[bushman101]

Yeah. If the Leviathan did ranged attacks better, it would compete to heavily with the other Dreads. 

My view is that the Leviathan is a dedicated mid-board model. Everything else can either out-range it, or move faster

[Mandragola]

There's a really big difference between 18" and 24" though - one can fire on turn 1 and the other often can't - when you're deploying 24" apart. A whole turn of missed shooting is a big issue. That said, the melta is significantly scarier than the storm cannon, so it may well be the best choice.

[Lord Krungharr]

I just picked up the Leviathan kit last night.   Magnets are on standby but I like the looks of the Cyclonic Melta Lance and claw.  Good versatile toolkit who can march upfield in my Iron Hands detachment.  Or ride in my generically silvery-painted Kharybdis when I get it all done.  Guess the loadout/deployment kinda depend on the army too.  For tank hunting Iron Warriors might get more mileage out of 2 guns?  But the Iron Hands can march to melee with that -1 Str for enemy shootings at it.  

 

[MichaelCarmine]

I also preffer the Melta Lance, but against vehicles, the Stormcannon is a scary ass weapon, thanks to rending (5+) and Sunder.

I didn't do the mathhammer, but with atleast 40 testrolls, i do about 2 to (mostly) 3 hullpoints (glance/pen) to an av14 vehicle per shooting phase.

That being said, as the best allround weapon, be it vehicles/dreads/2W Elite infantry, the melta lance does the work propperly, IF in range. =]

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Mandragola said:

There's a really big difference between 18" and 24" though - one can fire on turn 1 and the other often can't - when you're deploying 24" apart. A whole turn of missed shooting is a big issue. That said, the melta is significantly scarier than the storm cannon, so it may well be the best choice.

Well the tables I play on rarely have direct line of sight deployment zone to deployment zone. You need to do some moving to get to the fire lanes, meaning the shorter ranges aren't the biggest deal.

It's also worth pointing out that the storm cannon is pretty bad as a single weapon . It lost ap 3 and is basically only good at killing light to medium vehicles, and those aren't the main threats this edition. Insta killing terminators and other two wound models is important. Stripping wounds off dreads is important. Blasting Spartans is important. Cutting through FNP is important. Light vehicle duty ain't.

[Mandragola]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Well the tables I play on rarely have direct line of sight deployment zone to deployment zone. You need to do some moving to get to the fire lanes, meaning the shorter ranges aren't the biggest deal.

It's also worth pointing out that the storm cannon is pretty bad as a single weapon . It lost ap 3 and is basically only good at killing light to medium vehicles, and those aren't the main threats this edition. Insta killing terminators and other two wound models is important. Stripping wounds off dreads is important. Blasting Spartans is important. Cutting through FNP is important. Light vehicle duty ain't.

I’m coming round to that opinion too I must admit. There are some slightly surprising things, like the storm cannon taking off more hull points outside of 9” than the melta, but the melta is far better against other dreads and heavy infantry.

there’s genuinely a good case for going with claw and drill I think. The claw has to be the first choice melee weapon for me because Brutal is so awesome, especially at such a high strength. The drill is much better against vehicles though. It’s a shame the thing can’t run but it’s true you can use reactions to move it towards the enemy… though only 3” extra per turn. 

[Marshal Mittens]

I think my two best loadouts are either a melta Lance + Claw or 2 Butcher Cannons. 

[Pearson73]

What do folk think of the grav weapon, I get the impression that it's not seen too favourably? 

[Gore Crow]

9 minutes ago, Pearson73 said:

What do folk think of the grav weapon, I get the impression that it's not seen too favourably? 

The rules for it are pretty weird - it’s very short ranged, doesn’t have haywire and it doesn’t leave the dangerous grav template. It is ap 4, and it rolls 4d6 for armour pen so not very reliable either. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Gore Crow

[SkimaskMohawk]

20 minutes ago, Gore Crow said:

The rules for it are pretty weird - it’s very short ranged, doesn’t have haywire and it doesn’t leave the dangerous grav template. It is ap 4, and it rolls 4d6 for armour pen so not very reliable either. 

It's weird because they decided to scrap ap 2 blasts in the final cut of the rules. In 1st and up until version 3 of the test rules, the weapon was ap 2 and had a clear role; hard anti-infantry removal. 

In the final cut, they dropped the ap, upped it to 4d6 for armour pen and...that's it. They seemingly forgot that:

a) the other two guns are dedicated to killing various armour values.

b) they increased the amount of wounds across the board, indirectly nerfing non-instant death ap 2.

c) they gave a ton of stuff the ability to reroll saves against blasts.

d) dreadnoughts provided a huge vehicle threat in 1st; chainfists and melta bombs were popular because they turned the tables on a wall of av13. They're not vehicles and got way stronger; most weapons got tweaked to pull some double duty.

e) how they wrote other grav weapons. Those make you roll under your strength value (not equal or under) to pass. They stick around and make a dangerous terrain zone. They interact with dreads and bots as well as vehicles.