Rubrics in CSM armies are really strong?

[Xenith]

or so it seems. Aside from ObSec, Rubes in a Chaos Marine army get the mark of tzeentch, the option for a -1AP icon, but also let the Galaxy burn.

A unit of 10 with warpflamers is getting an average of 50 (minimum 27, max 81) autohits, and they still have access to warptime so can move 6+D6+6 and shoot out to 12". 

Defensively, they have All is dust for +1 save against D1, however reading the detachment ability, they appear to lose the 5++ for being ARCANA ASTARTES...but can gain a 4++ from the spell tree. However between all is dust and armour of contempt, the 5++ hasn't been that useful for a while. With the icon, they'll also ignore the first failed armour save each turn, perfect for when the D2 stuff starts coming in. 

Am I right in thinking this, or have I missed something? With Alpha Legion, they can advance deploy for a bonus 6" - are there any other good legion interactions?

Edited August 15, 2022 by Xenith

[MasterDeath]

I hate to bring bad news, but Rubrics in CSM (unless I missed a FAQ) do not get ObSec (they are elite after all) and they do not get the option of the -1 AP Icon, only the Icon of Flame from Codex TS, but that does not include the "Icon" keyword, so no -1 AP. Edit: Ignore first save works, as does Skeins of fate

 

They are core though, so everything thats core related does work fine, along with a ridicoulus number of "Let the Galaxy Burn" empowered flamers.

Edited August 15, 2022 by MasterDeath

[Xenith]

Oh typo, I meant aside from losing ObSec! Good catch on the icon, I was just looking at the mark of tzeentch, and they have no way to get the icon keyword.

So in CSM Rubrics 

Gain
+2 shots per flame weapon
Mark of Tzeentch (ignore first failed save)

Lose:
5++
Obsec
 

[Special Officer Doofy]

And they have to pay for the mark of Tzeentch too right? Not optional if I remember? 

[MasterDeath]

I mean 9d6+18 autohits is not too shaby. If you need to kill an aircraft...

[Relic]

I think they are pretty useful in CSM, either as a cheap MSU squad (warptime/prescience/death hex/skeins of fate) for spell casting as it is hard to fit a sorcerer, or the flamer squad as you say with let the galaxy burn. Something to kill flyers is also a major boon, as we struggle I think vs them due to poor shooting in general. 

Depending on your legion, you also get access to some nice pickups as they retain the core keyword. E.g. in Iron Warriors, you can dour duty 2 dmg shots into them, turning the dmg into 1 and therefore getting your all is dusty +1 save! 

Something i've played around with in my head also is that Iron Warriors have a warlord trait to let units count as standing still in the shooting phase, so you could have walking 2 shot inferno bolters which would be novel. 

 

[Prot]

I'm using a 5 man squad with Bastion in my Iron Warriors. Certainly not game breaking, but trust me, not many want to charge into them.

 

[Kaiju Soze]

Also, remember that the Aspiring Sorcerer has to take a Hereticus power, but is not limited to the first 3 selections. Edit: Warptime is covered by the OP.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Kaiju Soze

[Relic]

Honestly, in Iron Warriors I think all the Cult Marines can be strong choices as Bastion can give a unit back obsec (+ better over-wacth or +1 to hit first round of combat when charged). In addition Rubics, Berzerkers and Plague Marines love dour duty. 

Noise Marines is a bit more niche, but Iron Warriors can let them still move and shoot the blastmaster normally via a warlord trait and/or +1 damage vs vehicles. A 5 dmg blastmaster vs vehicles at 24'' range is nothing to sniff at! 

I am sure other legions also have nice synergies if you dig into them. 

Edited August 15, 2022 by Relic

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

Black Legion Rubrics can be nice because they don't have to cast Prescience when shooting at the closest target, so they can focus on something like the 4++, Warp Time, or Death Hex.

For any Legion, they can also use The Great Sorcerer if needed and I've heard of people using them as midfield/backfield security to blast deep strikers with Inferno Bolters/Soulreaper via Warp-Born Foresight.

[DesuVult]

T4 W2 3+/4++/6+++ AoC AiD -1 damage.  As Iron Warriors they are quite difficult to shift. 

[Toldavf]

Might be remembering wrong but cult troops do not get legion trait. 

[Prot]

2 hours ago, Toldavf said:

Might be remembering wrong but cult troops do not get legion trait. 

That is true. They only get the keyword, but that's good for using your Legion's strats at least.

Something not mentioned here is Plague Marines. I had to laugh as I watched the Art of War guys plug plague marines into a Black Legion list and they were absolute terrors to deal with. The fact is I play against a lot of different Deathguard, and I personally think they are waaay under the radar. But to the point, the plug in ability of Plague marines (especially now that for some reason their squad upgrades are free!?) makes them all the more juicy to add and a really hard to shift unit.

 

[DesuVult]

6 hours ago, Toldavf said:

Might be remembering wrong but cult troops do not get legion trait. 

Indeed, if they did as IW they would have everything I mentioned above and turn off wound rerolls.

[Gree]

I believe that Rubric Marines benefit from the Daemon Shells stratagem as well.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

13 hours ago, Toldavf said:

Might be remembering wrong but cult troops do not get legion trait. 

How on earth did I forget that? I had just discussed that with someone not long before. Sorry. 

They would need to cast Prescience.....but they could benefit from Abaddon's full rerolls if needed because they still get the BL keyword.  As someone else mentioned, Daemon Shells could be interesting, especially in the case of another FAQ giving them "ICON."  Given that we've had the "stuff GW knew about before release" FAQ, we're due for another one in a month or two once they've received all the complaints about the other stuff.