Sarum pattern helms

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

So I have a couple of the marine boarding sets from forgeworld that I've decided fit very nicely to the new mkvi marines. I'm keeping the beakie helms but wondered if the boarding helms look sufficiently like Sarum pattern helms to warrant their use on a heavy support squad or something.  Comparison pic below, thoughts?

[Casual Heresy]

Personally I think they are close enough to be Sarum pattern helmets. I'm in the same boat as I have some unpainted 40k Ultras I'm going to use that have MKVII. My lore justification is they were gifted Sarum pattern helms by World Eater pals during the crusade.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Doesn't even have to have come from some world eaters. Maybe the local forgeworld near the UM recruiting planet sent a batch of Sarum pattern helms as they were affiliated to sarum  and churned out a few hundred as prototypes

[No Foes Remain]

There are also the Mantilla pattern helmet which went around a few Legions (Sons of Horus and Salamanders to name two) which would become the standard for MkV armour.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by No Foes Remain
Fixed 2nd image

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

2 hours ago, No Foes Remain said:

There are also the Mantilla pattern helmet which went around a few Legions (Sons of Horus and Salamanders to name two) which would become the standard for MkV armour.

 

  Hide contents

 

That from the original books? Looks just like the sarum pattern! Much appreciated 

[No Foes Remain]

Yep, Sons of Horus from Book 1 and Salamander from Book 2.

 

Edit: Seems like the Salamander image didn't load properly for whatever reason, so I've fixed that now.

Edited August 18, 2022 by No Foes Remain

[Valkyrion]

I hope this doesn't come off as condescending or patronising or anything like that, because I used to think about this stuff too, but unless your group is completely full of utter fluff meisters that can spot a MKVII marine at a thousand paces then it really doesn't matter if some of your guys are a little anachronistic from a table top point of view.

If you are going for complete accuracy then all power to you, tis a fine goal to be sure. The 5th edition SM codex (I think) had the full compliment of Cato Sicarius' Ultramarines 2nd Company, down to the MKIII legs with MKVII armour, MKIV studded legs with MKVI helms, horizontal tactical arrow instead of vertical tactical arrow and all manner of uber cool details that made each and every little space marine on that drawing unique. It would be well cool to recreate it, and very possible now given the new materials to work with since 2008 or whatever - so the point is you can do the whole, entire, obsessive (not a bad thing) army if that's what you want to do. 

But no one on the other end of the gaming table is going to stop playing you because you've got a tactical marine with with a MKVII helm or you haven't painted the colour of your sergeants head crest correctly. 

 

 

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Not condescending at all mate, and I appreciate your input.

I've no problem with people using 40k parts at all. I've told my friends that if they want to run a heresy army full of mk7 marines that's fine, primaris can also have its place (proxying due to cost of new units,  or conversions with them) as long as the units are rules legal and easy to see what they're meant to be. 

Obviously I would love to play against lore accurate fully painted heresy armies on beautifully painted tables. That's the dream and what I strive for, but not everyone feels that way or has the ability to achieve that, and that's OK. It's more important to me to enjoy the game I play, have some exciting and cinematic moments, and to create some long lasting fluff for my armies.

I'm in the lucky position to have plenty of bits from years of collecting, so I'm able to make the decision whether or not certain parts are "lore accurate" without it impacting what I can field.

For these helms, I'd never really looked at them, it was the boarding shields I picked them up for for a badab era project years back then never took off. 

Now I've started building the breachers I've decided I like the look of the helms, they look like sarum (actually more like mantilla now, cheers) and I wanted to be able to use them.

They look a bit odd (to me) on the mkvi body, but on some mkv (from 40k sets like the csm torsos) on some mkiv legs (or 40k legs of a similar style) I think they would absolutely fit in.

I wanted to see what everyone thinks I guess

43 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

Yep, Sons of Horus from Book 1 and Salamander from Book 2.

 

Edit: Seems like the Salamander image didn't load properly for whatever reason, so I've fixed that now.

That's excellent thanks for the reference 

[No Foes Remain]

If you have Book 2, give the Salamanders a look as their armour is more mix-matched non-production MkV than the other Legions. So you popping in a few of those heads throughout your force with mix-matched armour would give it a nice patchwork look (something I'm considering doing for my Shattered Legions forces), and not only look good but be thematic too.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

31 minutes ago, No Foes Remain said:

If you have Book 2, give the Salamanders a look as their armour is more mix-matched non-production MkV than the other Legions. So you popping in a few of those heads throughout your force with mix-matched armour would give it a nice patchwork look (something I'm considering doing for my Shattered Legions forces), and not only look good but be thematic too.

Yeah I'll take a look at the sallies,  might be worth looking at the raven guard and iron hands too then I'm guessing. 

[tinpact]

If you really wanted to go the extra mile, you could add a bit of greenstuff to the brow to round it out (I did something similar with some terminators - adding a little bit of Milliput makes it a lot easier to get it smoothed out).

[Yodhrin]

13 hours ago, Altis said:

primaris can also have its place (proxying due to cost of new units,  or conversions with them) as long as the units are rules legal and easy to see what they're meant to be. 

Obviously I would love to play against lore accurate fully painted heresy armies on beautifully painted tables. That's the dream and what I strive for, but not everyone feels that way or has the ability to achieve that, and that's OK. It's more important to me to enjoy the game I play, have some exciting and cinematic moments, and to create some long lasting fluff for my armies.

 

Ooof, honestly I take a pretty easygoing attitude to other people's armies despite being a stickler for my own, but I'd draw the line at Primaris, and it would genuinely suck if using them became normalized. At some point there has to be some onus on the people coming in to reciprocate all this consideration for the opponent's enjoyment, Heresy *is* more than just a ruleset to a lot of people, and the implication I'm starting to see creep in around the edges of the community recently that having any standards at all makes you a Toxic Gatekeeper or whatever isn't on imo.

[Marshal Mittens]

26 minutes ago, Yodhrin said:

Ooof, honestly I take a pretty easygoing attitude to other people's armies despite being a stickler for my own, but I'd draw the line at Primaris, and it would genuinely suck if using them became normalized. At some point there has to be some onus on the people coming in to reciprocate all this consideration for the opponent's enjoyment, Heresy *is* more than just a ruleset to a lot of people, and the implication I'm starting to see creep in around the edges of the community recently that having any standards at all makes you a Toxic Gatekeeper or whatever isn't on imo.

Maybe depends on the Primaris unit? Obviously the vast majority of them don't seem to fit at all, but some, like the bladeguard ancient, are not obviously primaris, and could have a place.

 

Not really the topic of this conversation, but I would not have an issue playing against someone who was proxying with Primaris if they were just dipping their toes in to check out the system, but I would not want it to be like a frequent occurrence; i.e figure out if it's the right game for you, and then buy the proper models. 

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

1 hour ago, Marshall Mittens said:

Maybe depends on the Primaris unit? Obviously the vast majority of them don't seem to fit at all, but some, like the bladeguard ancient, are not obviously primaris, and could have a place.

 

Not really the topic of this conversation, but I would not have an issue playing against someone who was proxying with Primaris if they were just dipping their toes in to check out the system, but I would not want it to be like a frequent occurrence; i.e figure out if it's the right game for you, and then buy the proper models. 

This is what I meant, so apologies for any confusion. 

Yes long term the people I play with would be getting setting accurate minis (and they are)

But if they want to proxy a plasma support squad with a primaris equivalent to see how they run I don't mind. I wouldn't force him to buy, build and paint a squad just for him to find out he doesn't like the way it plays. Or maybe he's short 2-300 points to make that 4k army we want to fight at the weekend, make up the shortfall with what he has from 40k.

Likewise a fella I play against has taken a primaris intercessor and converted him to proxy Khârn.  That model is like 50 quid? I don't blame him for wanting to find a cheaper alternative,  money is tight for a lot of people right now.

Now obviously the caveat here is I know the fella and his circumstances,  and there's a good amount of leeway. 

If I was to go to a tournament/lgs/GW for a pickup game then that changes, for various reasons.

I think as everything in life, it comes down to moderation and communication. 

I think anything further should probably get posted in the historical/casual wargaming topic, as this is well off topic

Edited August 19, 2022 by Altis
Typo

[The Scorpion]

On 8/18/2022 at 5:40 PM, No Foes Remain said:

There are also the Mantilla pattern helmet which went around a few Legions (Sons of Horus and Salamanders to name two) which would become the standard for MkV armour.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

An exemplary of the Sarum/Mantilla respirator survived to a Minotaurs Chapter apothecary in M41

Edited August 23, 2022 by The Scorpion