What are people's impression of Heavy Support Squads with Missile Launchers?

[Orange Knight]

I'm looking for some feedback on the Missile option for the Heavy Support squad. I'll be honest and say that I'm somewhat impatient and was planning to wait for the 2nd heavy weapon upgrade kit, as I was intending to build a unit with 10 Culverins. In the meantime this weapon caught my eye.

I have noted that my list does lack sky-fire. I have not faced flyers yet, but I am aware that a local player does own a few.

I have really been pondering this weapon, but I'm afraid it might be a bit lacklustre as it feels underwhelming despite it's flexibility. Has anyone used the missiles in a few games, and if so how did they stack up?

Edited August 19, 2022 by Orange Knight

[arnesh88]

What legion are you using them with?

[Orange Knight]

Ultramarines, so there are no bonuses to their strength.

[arnesh88]

34 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Ultramarines, so there are no bonuses to their strength.

That's fine, some legions had more preference to other weapons, which was why I was asking.

I think they're fine, not amazing one way or the other. I think it mostly depends on what you need them for. Sounds like you will be dealing with air units, so having the Flak is good. You even have the option of just firing bolters in the air to make it more likely to hit it. Biggest strengths that stand out from other heavy weapons are pinning with frag and anti-air with flak.

Really, the only thing keeping them from being taken more often is that they are taking up a valuable Heavy Support slot. For your army lists, can you afford that? Or are your plans reliant on all 3 slots?

[Noserenda]

They can do anything, but never particularly well, flakk missiles in particular were always pretty crap at killing most marine flyers and frag missiles rarely worth all the faff but krak missiles fairly reliably kill medium tanks and power armour.

 

[Misterduch]

 For 225 points you get 10 S7/AP3 skyfire shots at 48"

It's not bad, BUT 

Sicaran Arcus at 230 points ( second one 215 ) gets you 5 twin linked S7/AP3 shots, which nets you slightly lower damage output against say, a Xiphon. but on a sturdier platform ( 10 tactical bodies at 225 is a juicy target ), but each penetrating hit has a chance to cause an explosion ( 1 in 6 ).

Deredeo at 205 points nets you 4 twinlinked S7/AP4 shots with rending and sunder. If you upgrade the autocannons for 20 pts you get the arachnus battery, which means 2 S10/AP2 shots with Twin linked, Sunder and Exoshock. You also get 2 heavy bolters and 4 anti air missiles.

If I had to choose a anti air platform I'd probably run the Deredeo or Sicaran as both have better survivability for their points, especially if you have multiple tanks to take the attention from the opponents anti tank. But to be honest I feel like just taking a xiphon or two of your own is a great way to contest the skies and get some proper air threats of your own

 

 

[SkimaskMohawk]

@noseenda ya they were crap, mainly because it was 210 for 5 with flakks back in 1st lol. 225 for 10 is a whole lot easier to swallow, especially with intercept not taking away your shooting any more.

Missiles are fine; they're very much a flex pick allowing AA, anti tank, and pinning support. I definitely agree that it depends on what else is going into your list, as the heavy support slots tend to be dedicated to solving specific problems, usually from turn 1. 

[Gore Crow]

They’re flexible and good for bullying power armour - but if you have a specific job you want done, one of the other HSS choices would be better. 

When there are more non-astartes armies flying around they will make a bit more sense.

 

[No Foes Remain]

nvm

Edited August 30, 2022 by No Foes Remain

[SkimaskMohawk]

The large blast of the standard whirlwind does not have pinning. The breaching shot being STR 7 and a small blast means you get relatively few hits (half of which will actually breach), and can't deal with multiwound models. The anti air shot is...one single shot; without ap 2, it cannot kill an aircraft without a very lucky (2.6% - 1.5% per shot, depending on the aircraft) immobilization into crash and burn , and at STR 7, it can't intercept with it. Each firing mode is really bad; the whirlwind is really bad. And it can't even squadron to increase the output you get from the slot.

A Scorpius gets you a large blast, with rending 4+ (so you can always wound), pinning, and STR 8 to instakill the stuff it lands on. It has higher front and side armour, and an extra hullpoint. It can squadron. Its the same points for the first; the second is cheaper. 

The only thing worse than taking two standard whirlwinds is taking three standard whirlwinds. Its not quite good; it's really bad. Don't ever take them.

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by SkimaskMohawk

[bushman101]

I have to agree with the above. You take them based on what else you have.

Being a Blood Angel player, I usually need a lot of ranged attacks to pin units so my melee can get in at full strength.

[Orange Knight]

Thank you all for the good replies. I'm looking to keep the infantry numbers high as I'm running a list based around the Logos Lectora in a 3k point army.

This is the list, I'm just in the process of painting the infantry at the moment, but I own all the models and they have been assembled for the most part. The only thing I've not put together is the heavy support squad as I was originally waiting for the Volkite Culverins to get released.

HQ:

-Librarian Consul, Force Axe, Biomancy Discipline 

-Master of Signal

-Legion Herald, Power Sword

Troops:

-10 Tactical Marines, Rhino with Multi-Melta, Searchlights

-10 Tactical Marines, Rhino with Searchlights 

-20 Tactical Mairines

Elites:

-10 Fulmentarus Terminators, Power Fists

-2 Legion Apothecaries - one will join the Heavy Support Squad, the other will join the 20 strong Tactical unit.

Heavy Support:

-Legion Spartan, Two Las Cannon arrays, Twin Lascannon, Combi-Bolter, Flare Shield

-Kratos Tank, Melta Blast Gun, 4 Lascannons, Flare Shield

-10 Legion Heavy Support Marines, Missile Launchers

Lord of War:

-Primarch Guilliman

Edited August 20, 2022 by Slips
Removed white-lining that was appearing

[Marshal Mittens]

I like them.

 

They are not amazing at anything, but they are pretty decent at a LOT of things. They can shoot fliers, they can shoot and successfully kill almost any vehicle in the game. They have AP3 on Krak and can kill marines well. And they have a 48" range. They can also be useful for killing other dangerous shooting units that they out range, without fear of return fire. 

 

If you set them up in cover with good LOS in your deployment zone, they will probably be pretty successful in earning their points back, and remain fairly safe. 

 

They are not amazing, but they are at least "OK" against almost everything in the game.

 

I think Lascannons only being a bit more, with AP2 and 9str, is the main reason missiles are not more popular.

[ashc]

Definitely a flexible choice, I think for well-rounded legions like the Ultras they are a good shout. If it's looking like the occasional Flyer in your regular opponent base then they are a good choice, but if you were facing more or more regularly I think you would want something more dedicated .

[Brother_Angelus]

I've been using 10 with a master of signal attached to trigger A Talent for Murder vs vehicles for +1 to Pen. It's ok, but AP3 is a real handicap vs dreads and terminators.

 

Unless you're really in a flyer heavy meta Lascannons are going to have a lot more targets.