old school razorbacks in HH?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

what are the chances the old school manned turret razorbacks get a face lift and come back in the horus heresy line?

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Well it originally was a “new” invention much later than the heresy, so not unless they change that.

[TheNineteenth]

1 hour ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

Well it originally was a “new” invention much later than the heresy, so not unless they change that.

The only ret, con worse than Macharius rules. 

Sadly, the era of enabling classic FW model use seems almost over with Anuj's event bans. 

[Spacefrisian]

4 hours ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

Well it originally was a “new” invention much later than the heresy, so not unless they change that.

Well they could put it in, they also added the Predator Annihalator pattern and Vindicator into it, both being creations from after the Horus Heresy.

[Pacific81]

I used to have one in my Heresy World Eaters, on the grounds that they had already turned traitor and what was the Emperor going to do about it?

[lansalt]

21 minutes ago, Spacefrisian said:

Well they could put it in, they also added the Predator Annihalator pattern and Vindicator into it, both being creations from after the Horus Heresy.

The Vindicator has always been a pre-Heresy vehicle and and the Annihilator was reconned for the HH Deimos Predator pattern without any explanation to retcon the lore about the SW "creating" them in M36

[Doghouse]

I think the most likely explanation would be that they had them, the tech got lost and as they are STC designs some bright spark millennia later put two and two together and remade them/rediscovered their STC calling them their own because all prior knowledge had been lost. 

I'm old school abide by the canon as originally written but in all fairness this stuff is pretty reasonable to retcon most of the time given the absolute nightmare that is the Administratum and their book keeping.  Records of the Heresy would be extremely sketchy at best so it's possible that these were forgotten.

The Space Wolves one is simple to explain away, a bunch of space vikings slapping on some lascannon out of desperation demonstrates that it was originally made to be possible. There is no way the Imperium at the height of it's knowledge, research, development, experimentation and growth under guidance of the still mobile Emperor of Mankind during the Great Crusade isn't going to be able to figure that out when Bjorn Wrenchhammerson and his mates did while in the middle of a battle with some duct tape and a hammer.

The Razorback could be explained by someone rediscovering the STC and they just took credit.

I think the healthiest way to look at it is not as retcon but as 40k archaeology where more evidence is discovered as time passes changing views of the lost since forgotten past. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

14 hours ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

Well it originally was a “new” invention much later than the heresy, so not unless they change that.

I was just noticing the old school style of vehicles have largely been replicated in HH.

I prefer that version so was hoping it would come back here

[Spacefrisian]

10 hours ago, lansalt said:

The Vindicator has always been a pre-Heresy vehicle and and the Annihilator was reconned for the HH Deimos Predator pattern without any explanation to retcon the lore about the SW "creating" them in M36

Thats not what Imperial Armor volume 2 said, the one from about 18ish years ago.

[Cleon]

Personally on the Predators I'm perfectly happy to square the circle with "The deimos pattern Predator had an twin Lascannon variant going back to the great crusade, but this configuration wasn't part of the STC used in the Mars pattern so wasn't produced in great numbers fter the heresey ended and as the harder to build and maintain deimos fell out of service the annihilator slowly disappeared from Astartes use, but not from memory. When the situation required it the Space Wolves attempted a retro fit as they knew such a thing should be possible and a pattern for connecting up the lascannons to a Mars Predator was discovered and the tank was re-invented."

[lansalt]

19 minutes ago, Spacefrisian said:

Thats not what Imperial Armor volume 2 said, the one from about 18ish years ago.

Both editions of that book and Space Marine codexes talk about Vindicators being used during the Horus Heresy...

[Pacific81]

I would definitely agree with Doghouse's post above.

And really the fact that we now have Primarchs returning from the dead, super-chaosproof-plus size marines +1, great rifts and the rest of it is anyone going to turn their nose up at sticking a turret on a rhino?

[TheTrans]

Its certainly a werid one, given you can take a couple of decently heavy weapons as pintle mounts. Honestly if you're just rocking a MM razor back or a 'Suppressive Support' (Havoc Launcher) Razorback, go for it! 

[Mike8404]

GW brought the Hammerstrike to HH without so much as a word.  If they can do that, they can bring all the Rhino kits to 30k

Edited August 30, 2022 by Mike8404

[Xenith]

I thought SW's jury rigged the lascannon turret, then started rolling it out. The AdMech were origianlly against it, until they uncovered an ancient STC saying it was ok - which could have even dated back to the Heresy. If most of the plans for it were lost on mars, then mars would have stopped making mars-pattern annihilators for several thousand years, until the SW's found they can mash some lascannons onto it pretty easily. 

[Stitch5000]

On 8/20/2022 at 3:07 AM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

what are the chances the old school manned turret razorbacks get a face lift and come back in the horus heresy line?

What would that do that isn't straight up worse than a rhino with a pintle weapon?

On 8/20/2022 at 5:12 AM, TheNineteenth said:

The only ret, con worse than Macharius rules. 

Sadly, the era of enabling classic FW model use seems almost over with Anuj's event bans. 

The Macharius has only ever been used as a HH model under the guise of "one of the myriad, esoteric tank designs discovered on worlds reach by the Great Crusade" or words to that effect. The Macharius was just used as a stand in for tank designs that didn't yet have models because at the time the FW range was in a formative stage and very limited. 

On 8/20/2022 at 8:04 AM, Spacefrisian said:

Well they could put it in, they also added the Predator Annihalator pattern and Vindicator into it, both being creations from after the Horus Heresy.

I'm not 100% on the Vindicator, but I'm pretty sure the Annihilator pattern predator STC was "rediscovered" in M36... Presumably it was created at some unknown and unspecified point prior to that?

[MegaVolt87]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:12 PM, TheNineteenth said:

The only ret, con worse than Macharius rules. 

Sadly, the era of enabling classic FW model use seems almost over with Anuj's event bans. 

Who cares about that guy. Majority of people disagree with him and will use the expanded units + exemplary battles ones. He has rapidly made himself irrelevant IMO due to his attitude and 12 year old boy maturity with his bonus rule event nonsense. Extra points for taking mk VI, kratos etc. 

[Noserenda]

It would be fine if it was just him but ive seen a lot of events in the UK restricting or banning the expanded PDF in events on facebook, which is just sad at this point.

[Mike8404]

1 hour ago, Noserenda said:

It would be fine if it was just him but ive seen a lot of events in the UK restricting or banning the expanded PDF in events on facebook, which is just sad at this point.

That's really sad.  Do they also ban legends stuff in 40k events?

[Noserenda]

Not sure, though honestly ive only been looking at narrative 40k events that are a bit more relaxed and they tend to allow them.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Noserenda

[WrathOfTheLion]

That's really strange, we mostly play at the local GW store and there's no way we'd ban the expanded units, the store manager even keeps a printout of all of it and the Exemplary Battles ones.

Then again, that I'm aware of, almost nobody stateside cares what Anuj thinks or even knows who he is.

Edited September 6, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[AlexisSonOfDorn]

No clue who this dude is, and don't care in the least. East coast here, and my club is hard anti WAAC. 

Heresy has always been about building and using cool models. Throw some narrative justification in and just about anything is good to go as long as your opponent is given advance notice.