Outgunned

[grailkeeper]

Started reading Outgunned by Denny Flowers. Very good for a first novel. It is written in a first person sardonic tone that is reminiscent of the Cain books. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by grailkeeper

[cheywood]

3 minutes ago, grailkeeper said:

Started reading Outgunned by Denny Flowers. Very good for a first novel. 

Glad to know it’s good! Outgunned is Flowers’ second novel. His first novel, Fire Made Flesh, came out last year. It was Necromunda so it went a little under the radar. 

[drooling blood]

Lemme guess.

Replace a typhoon or spitfire with a thunderbolt and a her instead of him. Hey novel.

 

[Roomsky]

17 minutes ago, drooling blood said:

Lemme guess.

Replace a typhoon or spitfire with a thunderbolt and a her instead of him. Hey novel.

 

Pardon?

[cheywood]

30 minutes ago, drooling blood said:

Lemme guess.

Replace a typhoon or spitfire with a thunderbolt and a her instead of him. Hey novel.

 

I appreciate good criticism, and I don’t want to speak to your intent, but this comes across as reductive and a little misogynistic. Can you expand on what’s wrong with a military sci-fi novel drawing inspiration from historical events and utilizing female characters, ideally without making it a political thing that will get the thread locked? Historically inspired combat with female and male characters describes a pretty significant portion of the genre these days.

Edited August 20, 2022 by cheywood

[grailkeeper]

4 hours ago, drooling blood said:

Lemme guess.

Replace a typhoon or spitfire with a thunderbolt and a her instead of him. Hey novel.

 

Im about a fifth of the way in but so far it bears no resemblance to WW2.

No major spoilers here.

It's set on a swamp planet famed for wine production and not much else. Orks have been an irritant for a centuries but have recently become a much more serious problem. The protagonist is sent there to make a film to drum up recruitment. This is because other planets in the sector fear looking bad if the Ork problem isn't solved. 

 

Because its a swamp planet this causes problems for pilots.

The pilot who the main character is sent to film is a brilliant pilot.  She's also a thoroughly unlikeable alcoholic. I'm sure this may change as I'm early enough in the book. She does seem a bit flashman esque minus the womanising.

[grailkeeper]

I'm not sure what the female version of a cad is. Cadette possibly. Whatever it is, it seems to apply to her.

Edited August 20, 2022 by grailkeeper

[caladancid]

8 hours ago, drooling blood said:

Lemme guess.

Replace a typhoon or spitfire with a thunderbolt and a her instead of him. Hey novel.

 

It would be quite short if so....

I am reading Fire Made Flesh right now and it is quite excellent, if this one is to that level its a must buy for me. 

[DarkChaplain]

8 hours ago, grailkeeper said:

Im about a fifth of the way in but so far it bears no resemblance to WW2.

No major spoilers here.

It's set on a swamp planet famed for wine production and not much else. Orks have been an irritant for a centuries but have recently become a much more serious problem. The protagonist is sent there to make a film to drum up recruitment. This is because other planets in the sector fear looking bad if the Ork problem isn't solved. 

 

Because its a swamp planet this causes problems for pilots.

The pilot who the main character is sent to film is a brilliant pilot.  She's also a thoroughly unlikeable alcoholic. I'm sure this may change as I'm early enough in the book. She does seem a bit flashman esque minus the womanising.

 

I had zero interest in this novel, the subject matter seemed way out of my ballpark. I think you just sold me, however.

[Knockagh]

Chat here has me interested. I was never a fan of Dans Double Eagle. The Battle of Britain thing was pushed far to hard. I’ve no problem using historical battles for the bones of a book but it can be taken way too far and just come across as cheesy. Maybe the Battle of Britain is such an iconic piece of our history that it stands out more. Everyone I know grew up in the early 80’s late 70’s pretending to be a spitfire (showing my age). Chocks away.

[grailkeeper]

Quite enjoyed this. I'd recommend it. A very new and fresh take on 40k. At times I found the characters slightly annoying, as the author wanted to show them as being too clever by half. I think that was deliberate. On the basis of this I'd definitely pick up whatever he writes next. I'd like to know what you guys think of his prose. 

[drooling blood]

On 8/21/2022 at 3:13 AM, cheywood said:

I appreciate good criticism, and I don’t want to speak to your intent, but this comes across as reductive and a little misogynistic. Can you expand on what’s wrong with a military sci-fi novel drawing inspiration from historical events and utilizing female characters, ideally without making it a political thing that will get the thread locked? Historically inspired combat with female and male characters describes a pretty significant portion of the genre these days.

Its 40k, half of the novels are just replaced timelines with a daemon/ sex change.

I dont really care who the lead is, but the comment sure did rile some folks up.

 

On 8/21/2022 at 7:01 AM, grailkeeper said:

The pilot who the main character is sent to film is a brilliant pilot.  She's also a thoroughly unlikeable alcoholic. I'm sure this may change as I'm early enough in the book. She does seem a bit flashman esque minus the womanising.

Thoroughly unlikeable alcoholic, you say, Heart starts beating. Finally a book about me.

A Captain Flash Heart you say, palpitations increasing, woof.

[cheywood]

This was an enjoyable read, though I feel like it didn’t entirely execute on the potential of its premise. 
 

Strengths: 

The premise: Viewing 40k Vietnam through a propagandist’s lens is a really interesting approach to a guard novel. Flowers uses it to great effect at times, capturing an outsider’s view of the reality of war and lending a catch-22 vibe

The characters: I didn’t necessarily like any of the characters that much, but they’re compelling in their own way. Shard’s backstory is intriguing and the governor lends an appropriate sense of absurdity

Flaws

Meandering plot: I never felt like the various subplots were in sync with the main story or given time to breathe

Rushed ending: everything about the ending felt abrupt and undeserved in my mind

Overall: 7.5 (would’ve been an 8 if the ending was better)

If you want a conceptually unique but not especially remarkable Guard novel this is a good choice. Others might get more mileage out of the humor than I did.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by cheywood

[Roomsky]

Unsurprisingly after Fire Made Flesh, this was great!

 

The biggest complaint I can level at it is that it often reads like a stock plot done well and full of standout pieces, rather than a story that really pushes the envelope - but hey, is it truly fair to expect every good read out of BL to set a new standard? Nope. I suppose it does succeed in correcting a lack of flavour from Black Library: Aeronautica!

 

The good and great:

• Simlex and Shard are both dubiously likeable but both come across as very real. I actually think these are some of the best-drawn humies in the catalogue in terms of verisimilitude. I definitely know non-40k versions of these people. Shard especially I loved, I expected more of a semi-incompetent commissar Cain and I got someone who copes with her nightmare reality by way of belligerence.
• The side characters are all fun and either uniquely endearing or fun to despise.
• The Imperium is constantly getting in its own way. Always an important feature of upper-crust Imperium fiction.
• The threat posed by the orks is very orky, they aren't just a placeholder antagonist. While they aren't causing all of our protagonist's issues, I appreciate they weren't subverted at the end by another xenos race/Chaos.
• The pacing is very sharp and there's no chaff when it comes to the action set pieces. It's honestly structured more like a WH Crime novel in that it's mostly about discovery and character interaction with minimal fightan.
• PLANES!
• I liked the other Shard family members and their relationship to Lucille quite a bit (sort of an inverse-Honourbound.) Wouldn't mind seeing them get their own novels.

Highly recommended. I hope Flowers has a long and successful future at BL.

[Preliminary Bombardment]

I picked this up based on the praise in this thread, and have to say I really enjoyed it! Read the whole thing in 4 days. Much lighter in tone, definitely closer to Ciphas Cain than other novels but good fun regardless