Legion Sabre Strike Tank HH 2.0

[Lord_Valorion]

What is the opinion on this little guys in HH 2.0?

Edited August 22, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[Brother_Angelus]

Those are the Fast Attack ones? They wins points from me simply by not competing for a Heavy slot. If they were cheaper to buy I reckon I'd have several by now. 

[xxxjtmxxx]

i like them alot with Standard loadout, but they never done it to my lists. there is always something better i like to run.

but in generel they are really good in hunting rhinos and preds/vindis in the side.

Edited August 22, 2022 by xxxjtmxxx

[WrathOfTheLion]

I played a game with one, I took the neutron anti-tank gun and it was kind of fun. I think it'd be even better if there were more predators and all around. I wish that gun did more damage to dreadnoughts though.

I have two of them, I'd own more if they were plastic and cheaper though.

Although expensive, the resin kit is pretty nice though. It was quite easy to magnetize all the options.

Edited August 22, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[dicebod]

I think they're pretty solid. Movement 16 is as fast as a jetbike (though keeping in mind the downsides of being a vehicle) and the Autocannon has the incredibly strong combination of Sunder & Rending (5+). The Volkite saker lost a little in the transition to 2.0, since now it only has one more shot than a culverin and around half the range...I feel like if you want mass Volkite in a fast attack slot, any of the speeders or jetbikes are a better choice. The Neutron blaster seems like a more interesting bet, since it also has Sunder now as well as Shock Pulse to potentially shut down other, much more expensive vehicles.

Overall, if you can keep them cheap and get them where they need to go without being blown up, they'll make their points back.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Imo they're in a weird spot.

The anvilus can pierce all armour facings due to rending, and it's speed and Fast subtype let you get into position with the multi melta to really hurt vehicles. But vehicles aren't the biggest deal any more; you want to be able to deal with speeders, dreads and multi wound infantry. Losing the str 8 from last edition means that you can't even go for cheeky instant death or fnp removal. 

The volkite options kind of need the daemon rules before they can start getting value.

This leaves us with the neutron blaster. One shot, but at STR 10 ap 1 sunder, it can pierce armour pretty well if it hits. Shock pulse effectively cripples the range output of targets you pen, but the concussive is actually a lot more interesting. -3 is enough to make any target hit on 6s and be hit on 2s, dreadnoughts included. Still an expensive ask at 100 points per model.

[Misterduch]

44 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Imo they're in a weird spot.

The anvilus can pierce all armour facings due to rending, and it's speed and Fast subtype let you get into position with the multi melta to really hurt vehicles. But vehicles aren't the biggest deal any more; you want to be able to deal with speeders, dreads and multi wound infantry. Losing the str 8 from last edition means that you can't even go for cheeky instant death or fnp removal. 

The volkite options kind of need the daemon rules before they can start getting value.

This leaves us with the neutron blaster. One shot, but at STR 10 ap 1 sunder, it can pierce armour pretty well if it hits. Shock pulse effectively cripples the range output of targets you pen, but the concussive is actually a lot more interesting. -3 is enough to make any target hit on 6s and be hit on 2s, dreadnoughts included. Still an expensive ask at 100 points per model.

That's my takeaway as well for the most part

 

Funny thing about the sabre neutron blaster tough, is that it's exactly half the cost of a venator, but you spread your stuff on 2 hulls for a total of 6 HP at AV12 from the front, vs the sicaran AV13, 4HP.

Sabres trade in 12" and "ordanance 2" for Heavy 1 and Sunder.

Venator has the issue of staying mobile and retaining it's full firepower, but can hit from a longer range with more substantial sponsons for a small fee, while the sabre can and often will be able to move into someone's side facing armour without loosing it's efficiency

It's an interesting alternative imo depending on your slot usage.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Misterduch

[WrathOfTheLion]

Ah yeah, I think I did concuss a dreadnought once with it during my game, forgot about that. I'd like to try it out again, need to do that.

[Marshal Mittens]

I think they are a really cool little option that I will never buy in Resin. They are not great, but they look cool. 

[Mandragola]

For me, their guns just aren't poweful enough. The autocannon is far less good than the Predator's (less strength, half as many shots) and just not worth taking places on a fast platform. You'd be better off trying to get side shots with the Volkite Saker most of the time, as 6 S6 shots will do more damage to almost anything than 2 S7s. I think one of these with a pintle culverin is sort of ok, though clearly not all that exciting.

The Neutron laser gives you an interesting alternative to a Sicaran Venator without using up a HS slot. I'm still not convinced you want to be paying 100 points for a single shot, but you actually get comparable value to what a Venator, or even a Cerberus, gives you. You get nothing like the Cerberus' durability of course.

[MichaelCarmine]

Don't know, if i agree with the Autocannon part.

The Anvilus Snub has Twin Linked, Sunder and Rending(5+) - which makes up for the two less shots and -1 strength. Also helps during Night fighting.

So against vehicles, i think the anvilus does a better job, whereas against dreads and infantry, the str. 8 of the predator autocannon is much better.

 

[Mandragola]

It's kind of the other way round. Rending is more useful against infantry and dreadnoughts. But it's not really better by enough to make up for having half as many shots and less strength.

The Predator Autocannon is really quite a serious gun. S8 rending means it can penetrate A14. And you can also strap a couple of lascannons on a Predator for not a lot more points, making a cheap and effective anti tank vehicle. A Sabre doesn't come anywhere near that effectiveness.

[Xenith]

2 Neutron sabres might be a good replacement for the Venator - are they ordnance? I used a venator in my last game, and lacking anything to allow normal shooting from the sponsons, you're paying for minimum 3 heavy bolters that snap shot all game, and the tank is restricted to half move to be able to fire the main gun. 

[MichaelCarmine]

2 hours ago, Mandragola said:

It's kind of the other way round. Rending is more useful against infantry and dreadnoughts. But it's not really better by enough to make up for having half as many shots and less strength.

The Predator Autocannon is really quite a serious gun. S8 rending means it can penetrate A14. And you can also strap a couple of lascannons on a Predator for not a lot more points, making a cheap and effective anti tank vehicle. A Sabre doesn't come anywhere near that effectiveness.

You think?

2 shots with a reroll to hit- you are highly likely to hit both shots

4 shots without a reroll to hit - you are likely to hit 3 out of 4

2 hits with a reroll to pen and a 1/3 chance to get an additional pen roll

3 hits without a reroll to pen and a 1/6 chance to get an additional pen roll/penetrating hit

Does sunder also help with the rending dice?

If yes, you are more likely to glance/pen every vehicle armor.

To be clear, i think the predator is a beast for its points. And my IW will likely include 2 to 3.

But the saber is far from being "outclassed".

He it's a completely different role as a high speed, flanking anti tank (with its anvilus snub) platform, which rarely has to shoot front.

Whereas the Predator (with the predator cannon)needs its higher weapons-strength because it's a backline anti tank/allround platform who mostly shoots at front armour/flare shields.

 

[MichaelCarmine]

2 hours ago, Xenith said:

2 Neutron sabres might be a good replacement for the Venator - are they ordnance? I used a venator in my last game, and lacking anything to allow normal shooting from the sponsons, you're paying for minimum 3 heavy bolters that snap shot all game, and the tank is restricted to half move to be able to fire the main gun. 

They are not Ordnance, but have sunder, so you get the same bonus, without its drawback.

The new Ordnance rules allow a vehicle to shoot all guns with normal BS, if it remains stationary. So if you are in a good position, you can direct this 12 shots with normal BS at infantry nearby. Oooor upgrade them to Lascannons, to counter weapon destroyed results (by having 3 weapons to choose instead of the one main weapon)...and get two more AT shots.

Not much, but something =]