Are primaris models 32 or 28 mm?

[hd3]

I was wondering are the new primaris models 32 or 28 mm? Because some 3rd party parts I wanted to use listed themselves as ' to fit 28/32mm tabletop wargaming scale miniatures'  but I'm not sure if that means it fits both or just 28 or 32. Any advice appreciated!

[Guest]

The game is or was 28mm.

But with the slight scale creep it might be closer to 32mm.

Do you have an example of these parts?

[lansalt]

4 hours ago, hd3 said:

I was wondering are the new primaris models 32 or 28 mm? Because some 3rd party parts I wanted to use listed themselves as ' to fit 28/32mm tabletop wargaming scale miniatures'  but I'm not sure if that means it fits both or just 28 or 32. Any advice appreciated!

"28mm" is a common name for the scale 40k and other wargames use and was suppossed to be the typical heigh of a human in that scale. It's also called "heroic scale" and it's roughly equivalent to 1/56.

32mm is the normal base diameter size for marines since 2014 or so. There are other minis in actual 28mm bases since a few years ago, but those are usually smaller humans or xenos like Eldar.

[hd3]

33 minutes ago, Wolf Guard Einar said:

The game is or was 28mm.

But with the slight scale creep it might be closer to 32mm.

Do you have an example of these parts?

https://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/resin-items/2413-samurai-helmets.html

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, hd3 said:

https://www.greenstuffworld.com/en/resin-items/2413-samurai-helmets.html

Well I  would think they would fit any Space Marine, maybe a struggle for terminators and the like.

 

[Grotsmasha]

Yeah, they are designed to be compatible with, and at 40k's scale

[hd3]

1 hour ago, Wolf Guard Einar said:

Well I  would think they would fit any Space Marine, maybe a struggle for terminators and the like.

 

Tremendous, so they are good for primaris and regular?

[Guest]

Just now, hd3 said:

Tremendous, so they are good for primaris and regular?

Yeah I can't see you having an issue.

[Arkhanist]

6 hours ago, hd3 said:

I was wondering are the new primaris models 32 or 28 mm? Because some 3rd party parts I wanted to use listed themselves as ' to fit 28/32mm tabletop wargaming scale miniatures'  but I'm not sure if that means it fits both or just 28 or 32. Any advice appreciated!

28/32mm scale can refer to the same size - for a normal human, 28mm is the eye-line height, and 32mm is to the top of the head, without helmet. i.e. about 1/56. 40k is 'heroic' proportions because heads, hands, feet and weapons are bigger than a real 1/56 scale person would be, as you can see if you compare to, say, historical wargaming. Warhammer 40k including Primaris remain in 28/32mm scale (usually referred to as 28mm); most baseline humans are the same height they've been for many years, it's just firstborn marines have got taller (mostly in the legs) to better represent their lore height relative to unaugmented people, and primaris are bigger again, but still the same scale.

The other, larger, scale is 32/35mm - 32mm to basic human eyeline, and 35mm to top of head. When something is only referred to as 32mm, they usually mean this, but not always. It's a relatively common size for 'true scale' minis; particularly with marines, they usually keep the same size head and weapons as 28mm, but make them even taller and bulkier, so firstborn are primaris size or even a bit bigger, but less 'heroic' proportioned.

Arguably, some of the necromunda minis are in 32/35mm scale, like the escher, delaque and goliath - but others, like the orlocks are standard 40k 28mm heroic scale.

Of course, when someone calls something 28/32mm scale, they might mean it's 28mm, or that it's suitable for use for 28/32mm and 32/35mm scales, or something else entirely, which is very frustrating! For helmets though there's generally no difference, fortunately.

HOWEVER - there is a difference between a helmet sized for a guardsman or cultist, and one for a space marine, even though both are 28mm scale, because marines have bigger heads! Looking a bit deeper, puppetswar seem to refer to 40k compatible as 32mm, including baseline human models which is just... wrong, but fine, whatever.

At which point, you just have to compare the helmet actual dimensions. Note, primaris and firstborn have effectively interchangable helmets. I did a quick sample of both, and they're between 6 and 7mm tall from top of neck (i.e. under chin) to top of head, and about 7mm wide (sorry, don't have my micrometer handy)

Those particular samurai helmets from puppetswar are listed as 6.5mm tall from neck to top of head and 7mm wide, so should theoretically be suitable for primaris marines!

Edited August 23, 2022 by Arkhanist

[hd3]

6 minutes ago, Arkhanist said:

28/32mm scale can refer to the same size - for a normal human, 28mm is the eye-line height, and 32mm is to the top of the head, without helmet. i.e. about 1/56. 40k is 'heroic' proportions because heads, hands, feet and weapons are bigger than a real 1/56 scale person would be, as you can see if you compare to, say, historical wargaming. Warhammer 40k including Primaris remain in 28/32mm scale (usually referred to as 28mm); most baseline humans are the same height they've been for many years, it's just firstborn marines have got taller (mostly in the legs) to better represent their lore height relative to unaugmented people, and primaris are bigger again, but still the same scale.

The other, larger, scale is 32/35mm - 32mm to basic human eyeline, and 35mm to top of head. When something is only referred to as 32mm, they usually mean this, but not always. It's a relatively common size for 'true scale' minis; particularly with marines, they usually keep the same size head and weapons as 28mm, but make them even taller and bulkier, so firstborn are primaris size or even a bit bigger, but less 'heroic' proportioned.

Arguably, some of the necromunda minis are in 32/35mm scale, like the escher, delaque and goliath - but others, like the orlocks are standard 40k 28mm heroic scale.

Of course, when someone calls something 28/32mm scale, they might mean it's 28mm, or that it's suitable for use for 28/32mm and 32/35mm scales, or something else entirely, which is very frustrating! For helmets though there's generally no difference, fortunately.

HOWEVER - there is a difference between a helmet sized for a guardsman or cultist, and one for a space marine, even though both are 28mm scale, because marines have bigger heads! Looking a bit deeper, puppetswar seem to refer to 40k compatible as 32mm, including baseline human models which is just... wrong, but fine, whatever.

At which point, you just have to compare the helmet actual dimensions. Note, primaris and firstborn have effectively interchangable helmets. I did a quick sample of both, and they're between 6 and 7mm tall from top of neck (i.e. under chin) to top of head, and about 7mm wide (sorry, don't have my micrometer handy)

Those particular samurai helmets from puppetswar are listed as 6.5mm tall from neck to top of head and 7mm wide, so should theoretically be suitable for primaris marines!

Tremendous, that's just what I needed to know! Now I just need some decals that will fit the shoulders and I'm all set!

[hd3]

1 hour ago, Arkhanist said:

28/32mm scale can refer to the same size - for a normal human, 28mm is the eye-line height, and 32mm is to the top of the head, without helmet. i.e. about 1/56. 40k is 'heroic' proportions because heads, hands, feet and weapons are bigger than a real 1/56 scale person would be, as you can see if you compare to, say, historical wargaming. Warhammer 40k including Primaris remain in 28/32mm scale (usually referred to as 28mm); most baseline humans are the same height they've been for many years, it's just firstborn marines have got taller (mostly in the legs) to better represent their lore height relative to unaugmented people, and primaris are bigger again, but still the same scale.

The other, larger, scale is 32/35mm - 32mm to basic human eyeline, and 35mm to top of head. When something is only referred to as 32mm, they usually mean this, but not always. It's a relatively common size for 'true scale' minis; particularly with marines, they usually keep the same size head and weapons as 28mm, but make them even taller and bulkier, so firstborn are primaris size or even a bit bigger, but less 'heroic' proportioned.

Arguably, some of the necromunda minis are in 32/35mm scale, like the escher, delaque and goliath - but others, like the orlocks are standard 40k 28mm heroic scale.

Of course, when someone calls something 28/32mm scale, they might mean it's 28mm, or that it's suitable for use for 28/32mm and 32/35mm scales, or something else entirely, which is very frustrating! For helmets though there's generally no difference, fortunately.

HOWEVER - there is a difference between a helmet sized for a guardsman or cultist, and one for a space marine, even though both are 28mm scale, because marines have bigger heads! Looking a bit deeper, puppetswar seem to refer to 40k compatible as 32mm, including baseline human models which is just... wrong, but fine, whatever.

At which point, you just have to compare the helmet actual dimensions. Note, primaris and firstborn have effectively interchangable helmets. I did a quick sample of both, and they're between 6 and 7mm tall from top of neck (i.e. under chin) to top of head, and about 7mm wide (sorry, don't have my micrometer handy)

Those particular samurai helmets from puppetswar are listed as 6.5mm tall from neck to top of head and 7mm wide, so should theoretically be suitable for primaris marines!

https://combatminiatures.org/products/imperial-japanese-navy-decal

 

While i am here, you don't happen to know if these transfers will fit a space marine shoulder pad do you?

[Evil Eye]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:02 PM, Arkhanist said:

28/32mm scale can refer to the same size - for a normal human, 28mm is the eye-line height, and 32mm is to the top of the head, without helmet. i.e. about 1/56. 40k is 'heroic' proportions because heads, hands, feet and weapons are bigger than a real 1/56 scale person would be, as you can see if you compare to, say, historical wargaming. Warhammer 40k including Primaris remain in 28/32mm scale (usually referred to as 28mm); most baseline humans are the same height they've been for many years, it's just firstborn marines have got taller (mostly in the legs) to better represent their lore height relative to unaugmented people, and primaris are bigger again, but still the same scale.

The other, larger, scale is 32/35mm - 32mm to basic human eyeline, and 35mm to top of head. When something is only referred to as 32mm, they usually mean this, but not always. It's a relatively common size for 'true scale' minis; particularly with marines, they usually keep the same size head and weapons as 28mm, but make them even taller and bulkier, so firstborn are primaris size or even a bit bigger, but less 'heroic' proportioned.

Arguably, some of the necromunda minis are in 32/35mm scale, like the escher, delaque and goliath - but others, like the orlocks are standard 40k 28mm heroic scale.

Of course, when someone calls something 28/32mm scale, they might mean it's 28mm, or that it's suitable for use for 28/32mm and 32/35mm scales, or something else entirely, which is very frustrating! For helmets though there's generally no difference, fortunately.

HOWEVER - there is a difference between a helmet sized for a guardsman or cultist, and one for a space marine, even though both are 28mm scale, because marines have bigger heads! Looking a bit deeper, puppetswar seem to refer to 40k compatible as 32mm, including baseline human models which is just... wrong, but fine, whatever.

At which point, you just have to compare the helmet actual dimensions. Note, primaris and firstborn have effectively interchangable helmets. I did a quick sample of both, and they're between 6 and 7mm tall from top of neck (i.e. under chin) to top of head, and about 7mm wide (sorry, don't have my micrometer handy)

Those particular samurai helmets from puppetswar are listed as 6.5mm tall from neck to top of head and 7mm wide, so should theoretically be suitable for primaris marines!

Also worth noting the scale issues are not helped by the inherently fantastical nature of some 40K characters. Astartes are an obvious example where they are (or should be) bigger than a normal human by a fair bit, with Primaris bigger again. Goliaths likewise are vat-born genetically ruined labour machines and are IIRC only slightly smaller than the average Space Marine. Eschers are a weird one as they may be doing some wacky bio-tinkering according to the fluff and are usually described as fairly amazonian but certainly aren't Goliath-tier big. As for the models, Primaris are about the size Space Marines should be, with Firstborn ranging from far too small (older kits) to about right in proportion to the Primaris and whilst not quite true-scaled, certainly big enough for tabletop scale (HH, newer Chaos models etc). Goliaths are about the right size, maybe a little big but then again that could be the Astartes being too small. Eschers do seem oddly tall, though not to an insane degree IMO.

Also bear in mind the annoying factor of botched scale within the same range. Some of the tragically OOP Space Marine metal/resin models featuring bare heads, notably the Masters of the Chapter, have much better proportions than their poseable plastic pals, notably smaller heads that look more to scale. I recall in the 5th Edition rulebook there's a picture of one such model next to a bare-headed Tactical Sergeant and the plastic head could practically be worn by the metal model as a helmet!

Honestly the best solution is to not worry too much and let rule of cool dictate it somewhat. 40K scale is, always has been and always will be borked beyond belief. If it looks OK it doesn't matter. Most wargames, even historicals, don't aim for perfect scaling and instead try and keep things manageable for gameplay. This is admittedly more a thing with vehicles (aircraft especially which, if used in model form at all, usually see play in a smaller scale than the rest of the models, for forced perspective and also to avoid having to move something as colossal as a P-47 Thunderbolt around a board, those things are big!) but regardless- if historicals are willing to fudge scale, a rule-of-cool driven game definitely can.

On the topic of vehicles, try not to think too hard about that either. We all know a true-scaled Rhino with a 10-true-scaled-Marine carrying capacity would be colossal and unusable in a game, but then you have the Land Raider, with its half-finished interior which, if "filled in" makes the already awkward assault ramp completely useless as the hull-mounted heavy bolter turret basket becomes a concussion hazard and the space for the driver and commander reduces the initially spacious interior to a capacity the Adeptus Mechanicus would describe as "bugger all", meanwhile if built as per instructions only one side door is even useable, and argh I hate that kit's interior so much!

Ahem.

TLDR: If it looks good, it's fine.