Loyalists in the 2nd Wave @ Istvaan V

[GenerationTerrorist]

Hi all.

As we all know, 4 of the Traitor Legions "purged" the Loyalist elements within at Istvaan III.

When the Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors and Word Bearers arrived as the 2nd wave at Istvaan V, had all the Loyalist elements within those 4 Legions already been, er, silenced?

I can imagine the Word Bearers having done so, given they started the whole thing. Yet can't seem to find too much lore about how the other 3 Legions would have eradicated themselves of possible enemies within once their siding with the Warmaster became clear.

Edited August 24, 2022 by GenerationTerrorist
Typo

[Cactus]

There's a novella about what the Word Bearers did, predictably called "The Purge".

The Night Lords were already out of control, and with their tendency towards infighting I don't imagine any special purging was required.

I'm certain the Alpha Legion were playing both sides so it would be a waste of assets to purge anyone. Just send them elsewhere.

The Iron Warriors had recently razed their homeworld and do not nornally tolerate dissent. I expect they could all be relied on to do the job and any wannabe hero who tried to 'Saul Tarvtiz' his way out would be shot.

[Gamiel]

But at the same time, the galaxy is huge, the Legions were spread out, many stationed far from the main force, and Warp is fickle. We know of at least two instanses of Iron Warrios who had no idea that Istvaan had happened untill they were told. 

 

 

There is actually a thread where we talked about possible lore justfying loyalist traitors and how to make them look different from their traitor kin: 

 

[LameBeard]

I think Cactus has it:

Word Bearers started work 50 Years before Istvaan

Night Lords already pretty much renegade

Alpha Legion all deep cover / double agents anyway

Just leaves Iron Warriors as stubborn and unthinking - those at Istvaan unquestionably follow Perturabo, those elsewhere unquestionably stick to their old orders and stay loyal.
 

i joke of course - this is just my rationalisation. I think there’s plenty of space to tell stories about those legions purging their loyalists. I don’t really indulge the full “Alpha Legion are really-loyal-taking-down-chaos-on-the inside”ideas because I think Black Library authors are in danger of writing nonsense and using it as a justification- but the less extreme idea that Alpha Legion were willing to carry out seemingly counterintuitive orders for a hidden wider benefit gives all you need at Istvaan - the loyal ones that have been identified by traitor command can still be relied upon to murder their loyal brothers if command’s true motives remain ambiguous enough.

Edited August 24, 2022 by LameBeard
Less snark aimed at BL authors - you are doing a great job, guys!

[Cactus]

I didn't mean to imply that there were no (or can not be) any loyalist members of those legions on Isstvan V, but their numbers would not have been enough to be noteworthy. They mostly hadn't been purged as violently as those on Istvaan III (because Angron) but measures had already been taken where necessary.

[LameBeard]

And I didn’t mean to put words in your mouth! Sorry I was just agreeing with your general direction and adding my own vaguely parallel thoughts.

[The Scorpion]

On 8/24/2022 at 8:26 PM, LameBeard said:

“Alpha Legion are really-loyal-taking-down-chaos-on-the inside”.

This is just something that the Hydras tell themselves to cope with their pathological need to lie.

Just because they think their masterplan is totally legit doesn't make'em a loyalist legion.

 

Many have been corrupted by Chaos for far less than thinking they still serve the Imperium.

Edited August 26, 2022 by The Scorpion

[WrathOfTheLion]

Some were corrupted even thinking they did the right thing for the Imperium, such as Magnus and the Thousand Sons. Intentions aren't relevant to whether they're ensnared by Chaos.

It's the fruits of the tree that matter, the results of their choices and actions, not their professed intentions.

As for whether the loyalist elements were silenced, I don't think so, but the deployments on Istvaan V were very intentional for betrayal. So I think the loyalist elements remaining in those Legions would've likely been elsewhere at the time.

Edited August 26, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[lansalt]

The explanations given above about the WB, NL, and AL are spot on. The IW are a different case, though.

The Iron Warriors were pretty much mauled and traumatized by losing their campaign against the Hrud and their genocide of Olympia. They had already sent away or worse those like Barabas Dantioch who disagreed with the way Perturabo ran the legion, and later those who tried to stop the massacre of their home world were killed. So by the time Perturabo turned traitor, all legionaries next to him must have been free of dissidents.

Later all those IW units stranded away in remote outposts had to decide by themselves which side to support, with apparently many joining the loyalists.

 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Yeah, there are at least two cases of the Alpha Legion specifically being such a-holes that Iron Warrior contingents fought them almost on principle. One was at Paramar where the Alpha Legion showed up disguised as another legion and then started trying to take over the planet. The IW had no idea what was going on, or that their primarch was now a traitor, or that Istvaan had even happened, and just said "Nope. F these guys.", and fought bitterly to prevent the Alphas from taking the planet.
The other was at Mezoa where Skorr and his XXth were so callous towards Narik Dreygur's forces, and left them hanging to be killed by Salamanders and ad mech forces, that Dreygur literally changed sides and started following the Salamander's commander (a dreadnought who had been dug back out of the sands of Istvaan V).
Those are in black books III and VI, respectively.