Flanking assault etiquette?

[Laughingman]

Is "blocking off" overly close flanking assaults (Edit: by saturating the six inches to either side of flanking marker, with models , so the opponent can't physically deploy there flanking models). a viable tactic in 2.0? If so is this tactic poor gamesmanship?

Edited August 25, 2022 by Laughingman

[SkimaskMohawk]

It is a viable tactic, just like occupying the floors of a ruin so the enemy can't make it base to base for a charge, or screening deepstrikers with worthless units.

You do have to commit units to blocking the marker for a couple of turns though (possibly), so it requires some sort of commitment. And doesn't work against anti-grav or jump troops.

[Laughingman]

17 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

It is a viable tactic, just like occupying the floors of a ruin so the enemy can't make it base to base for a charge, or screening deepstrikers with worthless units.

You do have to commit units to blocking the marker for a couple of turns though (possibly), so it requires some sort of commitment. And doesn't work against anti-grav or jump troops.

As far as I can tell the RAW the Anti-grav subtype doesn't specifically state one can fly over intervening models.. Might be an unintended omission.

[SkimaskMohawk]

11 hours ago, Laughingman said:

As far as I can tell the RAW the Anti-grav subtype doesn't specifically state one can fly over intervening models.. Might be an unintended omission.

Great catch!

Yet another nail for all the white scars lists lol.

[Brofist]

In ZM its particularly harsh as you can put an enemy outflanker into a dead end corridor

[Lord Krungharr]

Does anti-grav not say it can fly or counts as flying?!  Could be a problem for javelin speeders too.

[Laughingman]

11 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Great catch!

Yet another nail for all the white scars lists lol.

How does it kill White scars lists? Even without the ability to hop over models, anti-grav cavalry units still seem strong...

Edited August 26, 2022 by Laughingman

[SkimaskMohawk]

The lists certainly aren't dead, but looking at the units/rules that scars are encouraged to take makes for a dissapointing picture. I'll go into detail in the spoiler and tldr after it.

Spoiler

Power glaives are a bonus 5 points over a power weapon and have a very narrow niche. One that is not really accommodated by the units that have access to them.

Outriders are horrifically expensive for 1 wound, t4, 3+ save models. You compare them to assault marines and they come out lacking. Their draw is their access to special weapons, but that runs them up to 30ish points per model.

Skyhunters are good units, but they're still squishy. Losing the armour and toughness for an extra wound is only better against weight of fire in a certain range. As antigrav, they can't ever gain cover, so you need to keep evade for them, or run. But the unit is mostly a shooting platform, so you usually don't want to run. They also apparently get body-blocked, limiting their ability to contest objectives; something their speed would be extremely helpful for. 

Javelins are still fantastic, but were made heavy, thus unable to run. As antigrav, they also can't get cover, so evade is their main source of mitigation; bring unable to run means you need to save the reaction for them. They also just...can't deny. And apparently get body-blocked, so you can have an unfortunate parking lot effect in your deployment. 

Jump pack units just don't get the scars bonus to move.

Golden keshig share the javelin problem of being heavy, thus slow to contest/move and requiring evade. They're also slower than normal scimitars, meaning jump pack units move up the board faster.

Outflank disrupts off the initial arrival instead of the second like deep strike assault. Its far less flexible, and completely telegraphed. As you've noted, it can be completely shut down with good play and positioning, including units that could previously move over intervening models and charge freely.

Khan's sire rule took a beating from 1st, to playtest, to current. Scout was extremely strong and very high flexibility. Hit and run was also very strong, though more reactive. Furious charge is rather anemic, and despite calling him out as a beneficiary, is overwritten by his swords version. His outflank buff basically doesn't work, as he lacks scout, and joining to units in reserve before they're put in flanking assault requires a roll off to determine sequencing (and as noted earlier, is extremely easy to cage). Hes also notably not that great against dreadnoughts; the current meta threat.

Chogorian brotherhood lost its hit and run bonus for infantry. 

So wayyy too tldr:

- lost defensive stats from bikes/jetbikes 

- units that are upgraded to have the bike options don't get increased defensive stats (extra wound)

- lost main defensive tool (jink for evade reaction)

- lost top speed 

- lost traversal ability 

- lost damage from both glaives and the trait 

- lost access to scout 

- lost access to hit and run 

- outflank is a trap 

- lost tools to deny objectives