How are you liking HH 2.0 so far?

[Cadmus Tyro]

1 hour ago, Bung said:

Nope.

But i think your statement here is totally off.

 

Everything you call out here were never the core themes of the Legion, it was wheere the Legions got their best rules in 1.0.

So, people got burned cause they bought into to the meme army which isnt the best rules match anymore, sorry if i dont have any pity.

Cause its not GW / FW fault if player picking an army thats not as god anymore after an edition change and i feel the most people crying about this are the more competetive folk.

 

I play IF and the stuff i bought for Stone Gauntlet RoW in 1.0 still works, but i dont use the RoW anymore. I dont feel i lost anything or any of my models are unplayable.

The only thing i cant really bring anymore is my 4 Sicaran Punisher List i had in 1.0  as IF its ridiculus and i had already players tell me not to bring that for the first year.

 

 

Nope.

I think that’s quite a self centred response to the discussion. Stating that everything you’ve purchased is still viable and then calling out others for expressing their frustration with the changes and how that impacts their collection seems a little off. 

As previously stated, all options should be viable, if not competitive then at least not a liability. It’s true a lot of “competitive” units from 1.0 have been nerfed, but so have a lot of other units that I would not have considered competitive (vindicators for example). 
 

There’s also a difference between being competitive and being WAAC, it’s more of a scale rather than a black and white definition IMHO and often casual players will change the level of their competitive stance depending on their opponents stance.

Not quite sure how you can state bikes were not central/core to the WS. 1.0 rules were designed to reward using units that were fluffy for each legion, although it didn’t always work!

Cadmus 

[Astartes Consul]

Don’t have it to hand as I’m on my phone, but four FAQs, as well as Legacy Mech and an updated Legacy Astartes document have all just dropped.

 Interested to see peoples thoughts in them in relation to this thread 

[Noserenda]

5 hours ago, Bung said:

Nope.

But i think your statement here is totally off.

 

Everything you call out here were never the core themes of the Legion, it was wheere the Legions got their best rules in 1.0.

So, people got burned cause they bought into to the meme army which isnt the best rules match anymore, sorry if i dont have any pity.

Cause its not GW / FW fault if player picking an army thats not as god anymore after an edition change and i feel the most people crying about this are the more competetive folk.

 

I play IF and the stuff i bought for Stone Gauntlet RoW in 1.0 still works, but i dont use the RoW anymore. I dont feel i lost anything or any of my models are unplayable.

The only thing i cant really bring anymore is my 4 Sicaran Punisher List i had in 1.0  as IF its ridiculus and i had already players tell me not to bring that for the first year.

 

 

I think there is some major projecting going on here amongst various ignorance, those are all themes of the legion, you can debate core til the cows come home, but you seem to think they arent even themes, which is ridiculous.

Let alone the best rules for the legions in question, sure you could over play rapiers (Not really artillery imo) with Iron Warriors, but Fortifications OP? Are you high? Bikes? Sure command squads on bikes were good, but regular bikes? OP? Dont make me laugh.

You talk about having spamming sicarian punishers, which were pretty nasty as i recall (not something i ever say myself) and running stone gauntlet which was arguably the best way of running fists previously, are you sure you arent just projecting your own insecurity? 

Either way i cant imagine being so petty and spiteful and then going out in public and waving it around like a badge of honour dude, "Im glad other people are having less fun" is not a good thing no matter how you try and spin it a bit of empathy for others is an asset ;) 

3 hours ago, Cadmus Tyro said:

Nope.

I think that’s quite a self centred response to the discussion. Stating that everything you’ve purchased is still viable and then calling out others for expressing their frustration with the changes and how that impacts their collection seems a little off. 

As previously stated, all options should be viable, if not competitive then at least not a liability. It’s true a lot of “competitive” units from 1.0 have been nerfed, but so have a lot of other units that I would not have considered competitive (vindicators for example). 
 

There’s also a difference between being competitive and being WAAC, it’s more of a scale rather than a black and white definition IMHO and often casual players will change the level of their competitive stance depending on their opponents stance.

Not quite sure how you can state bikes were not central/core to the WS. 1.0 rules were designed to reward using units that were fluffy for each legion, although it didn’t always work!

Cadmus 

^Exactly this, 100%

1 hour ago, Astartes Consul said:

Don’t have it to hand as I’m on my phone, but four FAQs, as well as Legacy Mech and an updated Legacy Astartes document have all just dropped.

 Interested to see peoples thoughts in them in relation to this thread 

Getting FAQs out is a positive thing, clarifying what their intent is with the Legacies is essentially a mixed bag; the stated goal of them being a WIP is nice to know; the lack of changes to the badly balanced stuff strongly supports that being a deliberate choice, which is bad.

[Claws and Effect]

Okay, I'm a little annoyed by the FAQ in one specific instance. 

They broke my Primarch. 

Primarchs all have the Fearless rule. And the FAQ says Fearless units can't use Shrouded saves. So RAW Corax can't use the 4+ Shrouded his armor grants him on his datasheet. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's one of the situations where you can safely ignore it.

They tried to fix certain primarchs/units getting locked out of the legion advanced reaction due to part of it granting shroud/feel no pain, and didn't proof it properly. Obviously, corax was meant to have a 4+ shroud with conditional reroll, as its explicitly in his rules and was functional before the re-write. 

[Claws and Effect]

34 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

It's one of the situations where you can safely ignore it.

They tried to fix certain primarchs/units getting locked out of the legion advanced reaction due to part of it granting shroud/feel no pain, and didn't proof it properly. Obviously, corax was meant to have a 4+ shroud with conditional reroll, as its explicitly in his rules and was functional before the re-write. 

Not looking forward to the inevitable arguments with rules lawyers though. 

[Gorgoff]

 

Having said that I am still very pleased with the game. I had lots of fun so far and although some changes meant that some of my beloved models are basically trash some models I always wanted to play became much better. Of different.

I am building my Vlka Fenryka army with new vigor although my whole idea for them I had during 1ed got shattered competely. They slammed the door in front of my nose nur on the other hand they created new opportunities for me and since I didn't had any plan how to play them anymore it felt a lot more relaxed to build it. I didn't even try to make a new plan. I just build models the way I like them und just casually have a look at the rules to avoid building illegal units but otherwise I don't do anything meta for them. Just like when I started 7 years ago. 

To stop my inner munchkin from screaming I build myself a Warmonger and ten Dominators for my Iron Warriors though. 

I am not totally lost, you know.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Slips
removed response to unconstructive post

[Brother Sutek]

On 9/21/2022 at 4:32 PM, Gorgoff said:

Having said that I am still very pleased with the game. I had lots of fun so far and although some changes meant that some of my beloved models are basically trash some models I always wanted to play became much better. Of different.

I am building my Vlka Fenryka army with new vigor although my whole idea for them I had during 1ed got shattered competely. They slammed the door in front of my nose nur on the other hand they created new opportunities for me and since I didn't had any plan how to play them anymore it felt a lot more relaxed to build it. I didn't even try to make a new plan. I just build models the way I like them und just casually have a look at the rules to avoid building illegal units but otherwise I don't do anything meta for them. Just like when I started 7 years ago. 

To stop my inner munchkin from screaming I build myself a Warmonger and ten Dominators for my Iron Warriors though. 

I am not totally lost, you know.

I've had great results from my Death Guard with terminator units. Last edition I seldom used them, other than Grave Guard but in this edition they are more durable. I can still use my 15 strong units of assault marines as troops and other than using missile launchers due to lascannon being too expensive last edition most of what I like for the DG is workable so little to complain about. My Dark Angels are feeling new so I've been excited to try new stuff without having to buy anything yet. My Ravenwing are my annoyance as for the cost of nine jetbikes, two javelins, four attack bikes with numerous 40k speeders, bikes and two attack bikes I already owned, it's tough to sit it on shelf after all the time and expense.  Just means I'll have to work on my Alpha Legion Headhunter list and hope for a FAQ. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Slips
removed quoted section that was a response to a removed post

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, Claws and Effect said:

Not looking forward to the inevitable arguments with rules lawyers though. 

Well real lawyers would apply the golden rule and not even bother having the argument lol.

I also don't really know anyone who tries to push rules like that in real life. Like when the speed mob dropped for 40k, none of the tournament guys even tried to do the deepstrike and return in the same turn because it was so obviously not the correct version and was printed before the ad mech faq. Maybe you're (un)lucky and you have a really big flgs presence with a ton of pickup games, and some random people are super into enforcing raw.

 

[Claws and Effect]

2 hours ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Well real lawyers would apply the golden rule and not even bother having the argument lol.

I also don't really know anyone who tries to push rules like that in real life. Like when the speed mob dropped for 40k, none of the tournament guys even tried to do the deepstrike and return in the same turn because it was so obviously not the correct version and was printed before the ad mech faq. Maybe you're (un)lucky and you have a really big flgs presence with a ton of pickup games, and some random people are super into enforcing raw.

 

It's pretty rare in my area, but it does happen. We have a pretty good group at our FLGS that we're running an escalation league with. 

I tend to get the rules lawyers because I'm usually the one that plays newcomers first, since I have more playing experience than all but 1 other person. So if a newcomer is an obnoxious rules lawyer, I generally find that out first. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Claws and Effect

[Claws and Effect]

*Puts Mod hat on* 

Okay guys, that's enough sniping. Keep it civil, mmk? 

*mod hat goes back in the desk drawer* 

And now back to our regularly scheduled posting. 

[Dwango]

So far I'm really enjoying it. I didn't play the previous version but I have managed to collect a sizable DA force during that time. Its fun to be able to get some games in with them. 

I've had a couple of 1k games and a handful of 750pt games. I'm finding reactions to be quite powerful at this level and specific RoW to be a bit binding. I think this will reverse as points get bigger. There are a few rules that need clarity but nothing that can't be sorted between the players imo.

I'm part of a slow glow narrative campaign with my flgs where we move up 750pts per month. Its going to be really interesting to see how everybody's army's progress. There's a 2k event happening this sat with 3 games happening over the day. Loyalist vs traitor obviously. I'm really looking forward to that.

Interestingly, most of my opponents are really liking it, and prefer it, over 40k at the moment. Just for the simplicity of the rules set and the narrative driven play. 

[Nagashsnee]

Mech player here, pretty happy with the book ( should have been day 1 release but anyhow) tho they were some odd choices, still no huge issues except some units were not in it. Ok so they will be in the pdf, and in some cases they were ( tech thralls with cc and termite) tho i dont understand WHY they were not in the codex. What broke my heart tho is that i own a painted lighting fighter and avenger fighter, units that were in the codex, that has appeared in mech books that i paid over 150 pounds for and now cannot field in any way shape or form in my army? 

This were not some experimental sub list or campaign book addition, they were in the 1 edition Mechanicum codex in the main taghmata list. I dont understand it, why just make them disappear? The lighting even had nifty lore on how human pilots could not handle it so marines and servitors were used. Honestly really ribbed me the wrong way.  Glorified paper weights. 

[Chaoself]

I'm two games into 2.0 and so far it is a joy to play. I realy like the rules rules for reactions.

[sarabando]

il be honest im not enjoying it as much as 1.0 the community is becoming less united and more hostile towards each other. The quality from GW seems down, the rules writing (most peoples complaints) is getting worse and the slow drip feed of releases is back :( 

[Brother Sutek]

22 minutes ago, sarabando said:

il be honest im not enjoying it as much as 1.0 the community is becoming less united and more hostile towards each other. The quality from GW seems down, the rules writing (most peoples complaints) is getting worse and the slow drip feed of releases is back :( 

My big gripe is how the books are set up. I know it's partly that's its a new book but the layout is annoying and hard to find rules. 

[Brofist]

Big agree, I didn't think it was possible, but they ended up with a worse layout somehow lol

[General Zodd]

9 hours ago, sarabando said:

il be honest im not enjoying it as much as 1.0 the community is becoming less united and more hostile towards each other. The quality from GW seems down, the rules writing (most peoples complaints) is getting worse and the slow drip feed of releases is back :( 

I’m really sorry you’re not enjoying the new edition. I am liking it very much so far, but I should caveat I never played 1st edition, I’m one of many new players in my area off the back of the new edition who are joining a small number of 1st Ed veterans. Apart from a couple of ill-tempered exchanges on the boards here (hey, it’s the internet!), I’ve not felt like this has been a hostile community to join at all.

However, I’ve really got to ask how you think what we have is a slow drip feed of releases? Since launch (a whole three months, remember!) we’ve had new Mk VI marines plus 4 upgrade kits for them, 2 new Praetor models, 5 new plastic tank kits, 2 new plastic Dreadnought kits, a rulebook, 3 army books (with a fourth announced) and they’ve re-released four infantry units in more economical boxes, and four character models that haven’t been available separately before. That’s before we talk about the additional characters and upgrade sets Forge World have released and announced, plus some print on demand upgrade kits from the back catalogue. What else were you expecting in that time frame?!

And yes, no doubt the release schedule will drop off after this initial burst, but with so many different game lines to service, it’s not reasonable to think this pace would maintain. Having had less than a week since the last release, I’m struggling to see where your pessimistic appraisal is coming from!

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's not like they're designing and manufacturing these things spontaneously; they've been sitting around for a couple of years. 

As you said, it's 3 months out and new players who wanted to play melee legions are left in the lurch with no plastic option. The release schedule should have been shuffled if they wanted to keep it optimized for their drip-feed release style, but why do that when you can channel the sales into the resin models? It's 340 cad for 20 resin ones compared to 95 cad for 20 plastic tacs. Pretty easy reason to see why they released all the non-essential heavy supports before the troops that drive a build.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm not worried about the release schedule of models. We've gotten more stuff in the last few months for Heresy than FW has given us over the last couple years. I see the lack of melee options as a non-issue at the current juncture. It's not hard to source parts to make Despoilers at the very least, no reasonable person is even going to blink if you use arms from an Assault Squad kit. 

If we still don't have that stuff by March or April of next year I might start getting a little concerned, but it's way too early to start dodging pieces of sky right now. 

[Noserenda]

I suspect its going to feel a lot more like drips if you are waiting for your heads/pads, (Or many other bits for some legions) or you want troops other than tactical marines or in my case, if your primary army is Anathemas and you still dont have an army list. :( 

As a much delayed roll out, it really is odd, but i think they may well be doing their best to get stuff out to us around the logistical problems and tightness of a specialist game release schedule. My main grump is the seemingly needless delay of electronic get-you-bys which should have been out day 1.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Its more like sourcing the assault squad arms unless you have access to a 3d printer/recaster, and you might as well just get the whole models at that point. The argument of "jsut convert it" gets rather more improbable for breachers. The sky isn't falling, but we didn't need standalone spartans and contemptors before assaults, despoilers, or breachers. 

[Brother Sutek]

5 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Its more like sourcing the assault squad arms unless you have access to a 3d printer/recaster, and you might as well just get the whole models at that point. The argument of "jsut convert it" gets rather more improbable for breachers. The sky isn't falling, but we didn't need standalone spartans and contemptors before assaults, despoilers, or breachers. 

I would definitely love despoilers and assault marines.  My Dark Angels would love to do a few 20 man units.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I am a little surprised we saw every single special weapon immediately and still havent even had an assault sprue teased.

[BitsHammer]

I'm surprised they drip fed the legions for like two months then stopped releasing legion upgrade updates.

At this point I hope the next bit release just dumps a bunch of stuff in our laps they haven't teased yet.