Guilliman & Tanks

[NKirkham24]

Since Guilliman was reduced in points, i've been considering using him in some lists.

One of the niche things he offers is his massive re-roll 1s aura to <Imperium>, which would impact anything, avoiding the <Core> keyword restriction.

Ordinarily, I think SM vehicles (bar Dreadnoughts) are quite underwhelming, however, with the new Heresy kits, and Guilliman's extra CP to mitigate the Martial Legacy, do you think there is some viability in some of them, alongside Armour of Contempt?

List wise, i've come up with the following:

Guilliman

Tigurius (in for psychic fortress mainly)

Master of the Forge, keep those vehicles hitting on 2s and repairing. 

5x Heavy Intercessors w/ assault variant

5x Infiltrators w/ helix gauntlet

5x Intercessors w/bolt rifles

4x Bladeguard Veterans

Leviathan, siege claw and drill, volkite, 3x hunter killers.

Vindicator Laser Destroyer

Sicaran

Kratos w/ battlecannon as main gun, and all the volkite everywhere else. 

I tend to play fairly casually, so this would be fun for that obviously, but I do like to dip my toe in the occasional tournament when they come round locally. 

I've not had chance to try it yet as im still painting the Kratos and the Sicaran isnt built, but his is what I've come up with so far. 

Any thoughts on the list, changes you'd make or if you think it isnt viable really?

Edited September 9, 2022 by NKirkham24

[Captain Idaho]

It's certainly an interesting list. I think it is actually somewhat effective, though top tier tournament not sure. Maybe it is, since it has multiple tough vehicles that can be repaired and lay down decent enough fire.

I think it's possibly the most powerful list we can take outside adding big Terminator squads and Bladeguard.

I'm leaning this way myself to be fair. So I'm interested to see how you find it?

Variants I can suggest might be drop the Sicaran or Leviathan for a couple Land Speeders, or 1 and Attack Bikes if you're going heavy on competitive (or all Attack Bikes!).

Or a Venerable Dreadnought. I found the thing brilliant lately.

[NKirkham24]

I think I own one Land Speeder and one Attack Bike so don't really have the models to go that route, although I can see the benefits with the speed and firepower. 

Once i've got a game in with this (or a variant if i've not got it built yet) i'll report back on how i've found it.

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I do recommend a unit of Eradicators with heavy melta rifles

[NKirkham24]

Having not played for a couple of months, I finally got back to Manchester Wargaming Hive this Monday night and ran a variant of the above list as follows:

 

Guilliman

Tigurius - MoH, Psychic Fortress, Null Zone

Primaris Techmarine - MotF

5x  Tactical Matines

5x Intercessors w/bolt rifles

5x Intercessors w/bolt rifles

Judiciar w/ Rites of War & Armour Indomitus

5x Bladeguard Veterans, Sgt with volkite

Leviathan, siege claw and drill, volkite in the hull

Vindicator Laser Destroyer

Kratos w/ battlecannon as main gun, and all the volkite everywhere else. 

 

I played vs Emperors Chosen Dread Host which had the following (if I remember in full):

 

Trajann

Shield-Captain on Jetbike with all the buffs

Vexilla -1 to hit

2 squads of 3 Custodes, all sword and board

4 jetbikes all with melta

Caladius tank

3x FW Dreadnought, 1x Sword & Board, 2x Spears

 

We played Secure the Artefacts, which wasnt great for me, given deployment was short table edges and only 1 in the centre.

 

I had a plan to take Grind, with the intention of being harder to kill with lots of high toughness units, but his army worried me in that regard. Despite the worries, I went with it, as his list was really hard to pick against. I also went with Engage and RND, again not ideal.

 

He went for Banners, Stand Vigil and Auric Mortalis. 

 

Sadly I lost, but 89-82. It was a result I was pretty happy with overall, having not played in a while, having a new style of list, and against an army that out-toughs mine. 

 

Looking back there were some really key moments which could/should have swung it my way. 

 

I had my Redemptor on the right flank, who killed his way through 3/4 bikes, and a 3 man squad of Custodes before finally going down to Trajann in the end game. Unfortunately he was held back just close enough to the centre to stop me getting Engage in that quarter for a couple of turns. 

 

Likewise, I was a little took slow in the centre with the Bladeguard and Judiciar. I should have advanced them early doors to get into the middle, but just walked up instead, shielding the Kratos and characters. This meant, T3, he could tanglefoot them and prevent them getting into combat in the centre. Had they done so, with the Judiciar and Rites of War, i'd have taken down a banner and prevented Stand Vigil, essentially swinging the game my way. 

 

I wasnt sold on Guilliman, his re-rolls certainly helped, but he whiffed pretty bad in combat (not his fault obv, my rolling), then whiffed saves vs Trajann, and then didnt get back up, costing me 15 VP.....

 

I'll defo be giving the list another go, and i'm already thinking of some tweaks although I may leave as is for the next outing to see how it does with me being a little sharper and a different opponent. 

 

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That was a very close game against a tough list. Well done !!

[Casual Heresy]

Having just come into possession of a 2nd hand, all Volkite Kratos for my Heresy Ultramarines, I'm tempted to try a list like this for my 40k Ultras. Might be what I need to revitalise my interest in them.

[NKirkham24]

It did well. I think I was fortunate it survived in one turn, he whiffed on his damage rolls. But with the buffs to Toughness from MoH getting it to T9, and the 5++ from Psychic Fortress, coupled with the MotF repairing 3W a turn and giving it +1 BS, he remained reliable despite living in his middle bracket. 

 

Martial Precision on the S14 battlecannon shot was also very nice, and smokescreen too.

 

Obviously that is a lot of resources in to one piece, but early game in this list, I have the CP and I think it's important to keep around to soak up opposition firepower and dish out a good amount myself.

 

The volkite I like, although this was probably the worst match-up for it, with the high toughness and the 4+ shrug against MW my opponent had, against the majority of opponents it should reliably kick out a fair few MW.

 

 

[Casual Heresy]

I might try this list when I can next get a casual game. Not even slightly competitive with the Executioner, but It might be fun. I also have everything for it on hand, just need to build the Incursors and Techmarine. I put it together during a break at work so haven't looked at relics, additional warlord traits, or any free equipment as I only had access to the Munitorum Field Manual.

 

HQ

-          Techmarine with Master of the Forge, full servo harness, Storm Bolter, Omnissian Axe. 

-          Chief Librarian Tigirius. 

Troops

-          Assault Intercessor Squad with Plasma Pistol. 

-          Assault Intercessor Squad with Plasma Pistol. 

-          Assault Intercessor Squad with Thunder Hammer. 

-          Incursor Squad with Haywire Mine.

-          Incursor Squad with Haywire Mine. 

Elites

-          Terminator Assault Squad with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields 

-          Victrix Honour Guard. 

Heavy Support

-          Repulsor Executioner with Heavy Laser Destroyer, Icarus Rocket pod, and Ironhail Heavy Stubber. 

-          Kratos (-1 CP) with Volkite Cardanelle, 2 Volkite Calivers, 2 Volkite Culverins and a combi-volkite. 

Lords of War

-          Robute Guilliman (Warlord, +3CP). 

[Captain Idaho]

I do think a Kratos is good, especially with additional armoured might in there, but I have to point out Might of Heroes doesn't work on vehicles, only characters and core.

 

Never thought of Martial Precision on the main gun for the big shot, I often forget about it. Great idea especially if the Master of the Forge isn't around to give a 2+ or there are modifiers in play.

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Captain Idaho

[NKirkham24]

Ahhh, my bad, slight bit of cheating there then! I'm so used to running Tigurius with Redemptors, who can receive the buff. It was the 1st time using the Leviathan and Kratos - totally overlooked that MoH was restricted too! 

 

Martial Precision really helped the 1st two turns, especially with me in my mid-bracket. The +1 to hit from the Techmarine effectively cancelled out his -1 hit banner, but it still reduced me to a 50/50 on a 1 shot gun. The one turn I used the single shot profile and didnt use Martial Precision, I predictably missed, so that was a lesson learned. 

 

Again, this was stunted somewhat vs Custodes and all the 4++ saves, but against most other armies and vehicles, it's making a mess. 

 

@Casual Heresy, I like this list, more infantry for actions etc. Similar anvil unit in terms of the Termies, similar to the Bladeguard.  I love Dreadnoughts personally, but I think your list is defo a good starting point. Once you've tried it out, let us know how you get on

 

[NKirkham24]

I got a second game in with the original list above vs T'au Dal'yth sept. 

 

His list was pretty unconventional for T'au, but it is something he's been practising with and said he is pretty happy with. I may have forgot some things as it's from memory but it was something like the following:

 

HQ:

Commander - combat T'au with flamer that works in combat etc. , Ethereal, Fire Blade

 

Troops: Breachers, Pathfinders, 2x Fire Warriors

 

Elite: 3man Crisis Team with Plasma

 

Fast Attack: Piranha

 

Chonky Boys: Riptide, Stormsurge

 

Flyer: Bomber

 

He took Decisive Action, Aerospace and Assassinate. I took Banners, Grind Them Down & Shock Tactics. After reading the other recent GT thread on here, and the change to make it 4 points a turn, I felt it was definitely worth a go. 

 

We played Recover the Relics and he took 1st turn, opting to reserve the crisis suits, bomber and piranha. 

 

Most of my units we're hidden and I survived the 1st turn unscathed bar a couple of wounds on my Redemptor, due to the move/shoot/move that he had access to. He had 3 units doing his aerospace secondary, 2 fire warriors and a stealth team. 

 

My T1 was cautious. I moved my infantry (where needed) and put up 3 banners. I brought my Kratos & Laser Destroyer forward on the left, with Tig, MotF and a squad of Intercessors on the left and centre, still hidden from his big guns but in range to blitz the fire warrior he had in the open. The bladeguard advanced from one bit of cover to another on the right, backed up by the Redemptor and Guilliman. I also targeted the Stealth Suits on the left to try and stop his 3rd aerospace completing, but only killed 1 and half.

 

All my left flank shooting took out his Fire Warriors, taking him off an objective and giving me Grind.

 

T2 was time to weather the fire. He left the objective on my left for the time being and brought most of his guns to bear on my right. Transhuman kept the Bladeguard alive losing only 2, and the Redemptor was taken down to 2W.

 

My T2, again was cagey, pushing further forward on the right with the aforementioned units, the Leviathan started marching down the centre, and the tanks maneuvered on the left, mainly in cover.  He was similar in cover, bar a unit of Pathfinders. I put everything in to them that could see, but I couldnt remove the whole unit, and he used the strat to auto pass morale and prevent Grind.

 

My Bladeguard attempted a 8" charge, however, the grav drone thing add 2" so this failed.

 

His T3, he came again jumped out, shot and hid with the commander. With the Stormsurge, remaining pathfinders and  stealth suits reduced me to 2 Bladeguard and finished the Redemptor and wounded Guilliman. His Riptide moved to the right and shot my Laser Destroyer along with his Bomber, taking it down to 6W. He also redeployed some Breachers in my DZ and went for my Tac marines, but only killed one. 

 

My T3, I finally got in to combat on my right flank, Guillliman, the Bladeguard and Judiciar killed the Stealth suits with shooting and then used the charge to get onto an objective, claiming more Primary, Grind & Shock Tactics, while my Banners were still up and trickling in. 

 

His T4, he came out to play, with his Commander Piranha and Stormsurge all shooting and stomping my right flank.  Guilliman eventually went down under the Stormsurge. The Riptide finished my Laser Destroyer which blew and did 3MW to both Tig & the Techmarine. The Leviathan stayed strong in the middle, unscathed, as did the Kratos. My Tactical Marines were killed after he used Breach and clear. The big news this week was Guilliman popped straight back up with the big 6W remaining. 

 

My T4, I moved away from the big boys on my right. Both Tig and the Techmarine left covered despite being wounded, to steal the objective of the Riptide, just by walking on to it. I rinsed the fire warriors in my DZ but didn't do too much damage with the shooting from both my Intercessors and Tac Marines.  The shooting on my left and centre took out most of the fire warrior squad in his DZ, before the Leviathan charge the Riptide and Guilliman squished the Fireblade to take his home objective.

 

His T5 and we were close on points. He detached drones from his flier and went to steal the objective from my Kratos. My opponent made a mistake at this point, overcharging their guns and killing one of his drones, meaning the objective was contested and so my banner remained. Guilliman went down to the shooting from what remained of his army. The unit in DZ charged my Intercessors after shooting them. I was left with just 2 in the unit, and he stole my home objective. His Commander flew over to my two characters and killed them in combat. Combat T'au!!! This was an expensive turn as again he got decisive action and picked up 10 points on Assassinate, maxing it out.

 

My T5, and I needed to get the primary back. Tying in with Shock Tactics, it should be enough to give me the game. The Kratos came forward to contest vs his Commander, and the Leviathan limped round to join in, taking this back and netting me 8 points in the process. The intercessors on my left dropped back onto the objective the Kratos had just left and killed the drone, reclaiming the objective, securing my banner. The Intercessors left at the my home objective butchered their way through the T'Au, reducing the unit to a single drone and reclaimed the home objective. 

 

This meant the game ended T'au 74-83 Ultramarines!

[Casual Heresy]

Thanks @NKirkham24. I've got a game planned with it on 13th November. I also love dreadnoughts, but my Black Templars are already Dread heavy so wanted to keep my 40k marine armies distinct from each other. I went with Terminators over Bladeguard for the deep strike to appear in the back field, if need be. Hopefully having three large threats and potential surprise terminators will mean the infantry can skulk about and score points on objective and actions.

 

Well done on beating the Tau in that game!

Edited October 26, 2022 by Casual Heresy

[NKirkham24]

That's fair, mixing up the playstyle.

 

I've no experience with Terminators in this edition, but I know @Captain Idaho is a fan, based on his comments in other threads. The deep strike does make sense for the extra option, although you might miss them being on the field from the start. I suppose it's a game by game decision depending on the map and match-up.

 

I said in my post about the Custodes game that the Kratos was stunted, in this game he was significantly better. I think it spike in shooting the Crisis team, managing 5 MW. I would definitely recommend using it atm, it'll be staying in my list

Edited October 26, 2022 by NKirkham24

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah finely honed and you'll be smashing the tournament scene to pieces in no time!

 

Glad to see the tank doing damage this game. Custodes are always gonna be a funny match for Marines anyway.

[Casual Heresy]

On 10/19/2022 at 3:26 PM, Casual Heresy said:

I might try this list when I can next get a casual game. Not even slightly competitive with the Executioner, but It might be fun. I also have everything for it on hand, just need to build the Incursors and Techmarine. I put it together during a break at work so haven't looked at relics, additional warlord traits, or any free equipment as I only had access to the Munitorum Field Manual.

 

HQ

-          Techmarine with Master of the Forge, full servo harness, Storm Bolter, Omnissian Axe. 

-          Chief Librarian Tigirius. 

Troops

-          Assault Intercessor Squad with Plasma Pistol. 

-          Assault Intercessor Squad with Plasma Pistol. 

-          Assault Intercessor Squad with Thunder Hammer. 

-          Incursor Squad with Haywire Mine.

-          Incursor Squad with Haywire Mine. 

Elites

-          Terminator Assault Squad with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields 

-          Victrix Honour Guard. 

Heavy Support

-          Repulsor Executioner with Heavy Laser Destroyer, Icarus Rocket pod, and Ironhail Heavy Stubber. 

-          Kratos (-1 CP) with Volkite Cardanelle, 2 Volkite Calivers, 2 Volkite Culverins and a combi-volkite. 

Lords of War

-          Robute Guilliman (Warlord, +3CP). 

I had my game today with this lost and it went quite well. I’m happy that this list can actually work, is powerful, but it’s not horrendous for an opponent to play against. 
 

We played Tempest of War and I lost 50-65 but mainly due to the cards, and maybe from not using the terminators as effectively. 
 

The Kratos was the undisputed MVP. It took out a Contemptor, forgefiend, cultists and Khorne berserkers on its own and held an objective most of the game. The Repulsor did well as well. It didn’t wipe anything but did enough damage to make other units work easier until it took a Demon Prince to the face. 
 

Having Guilliman passing out re-rolls left and right was a godsend and I was able to keep both tanks in the re-roll aura for most of the game without causing myself problems. 
 

I’ll be taking this list again definitely. I’m happy that it doesn’t need much tweaking but will play around with warlord traits, relics, etc and stratagems. 
 

This game has reignited my passion for 40k ultras. 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Casual Heresy
spelling + grammar