Evil Eye Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Inspired by a similar thread in the Astartes subforum, I thought a place for us to share our hottest takes, most controversial opinions and generally nail our colours to the mast with our own views on the hobby. Doesn't have to be confined to any one section of the hobby, just has to be 40K related and something you're pretty sure nobody else agrees with or has even thought of. Obviously keep it civil, but by all means share a take if you hold it and think it qualifies! I have one that concerns the orks. Specifically, the ork to end all orks, the undisputed mightiest living greenskin, Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka. and that opinion is as such: Ghazghkull Thraka has never had a model that does him justice. Ghaz isn't just a Warboss. He's not just a big scary 'ead krakkin' brute who likes a fight. Ghaz is IMO a genuinely fascinating, multi-layered character who shows that 40K orks don't have to be 2D villains/comic relief (even if they are of superlative quality for both). He's equal part warrior king and religious figurehead, in addition to being the ork equivalent of a philosopher. Like, he's smart, not just in the sense he can count past 4, but in the sense he can plan ahead, make long-term goals, decide a rival might be better as an ally than a corpse, is aware of the weaknesses of others, including his own allies and himself, and is generally more self-aware than many 40K humans. Furthermore, he has motives and a concept of a higher purpose. He doesn't do what he does just because he wants to fight (and win), he does so because he believes he was chosen by Gork and Mork to be the Prophet of da WAAAGH! and that it is his duty to unite the orks and lead them to fight and win. Yes, orks are made fer fightin' an' winnin', but they were made for it, so they should strive to do it bigger and better. And he isn't doing this from indoctrination- the orks are fairly secular on the whole. He came to the conclusion that his purpose was divinely sanctioned on his own, interpreting the voice in his head as more than just a side effect of Grotsnik's dodgy surgery by himself. He has motivation and agency. Ironically, he is arguably very un-orky. He doesn't fight and win for its own sake or his own satisfaction, but because Gork and Mork expect it of him. He is capable of recognizing and admiring the strengths of foes, and in the case of Yarrick, he quite purposefully let him go; the Old Man of Armageddon was a worthy foe. Which to an ork, especially one as strong and clever as Ghazghkull, is the highest honour you can give someone. It's not grudging "Well I s'ppose 'e's alright" or whatever, Ghaz genuinely deeply respects Yarrick as an equal- after all, he's an old unaugmented 'umie but has been the only one to ever truly thwart Ghaz in any longterm way, fair and square. Even in capture and defeat he managed to escape and wreak havoc; Ghaz sees that whilst he's obviously not an ork, and he's not going to win an arm wrestle with him, he is very good at fighting and winning against impossible odds and for a higher purpose, much like Ghazghkull himself, which makes him the closest thing to a true equal Ghazghkull has. To put this in perspective, a quote from the ork himself- spoken in High Gothic directly to Yarrick. ""A great fight! My best enemy. Go to Armageddon, make ready for the greatest fight!". An ork of Ghaz' power, speaking as such to a human- in the human's own language no less- is the greatest boast someone could possibly make in 40K. Ghazghkull's admiration for Yarrick is borderline moving, and should Yarrick ever fall, I will be sorely disappointed if Mag Uruk Thraka doesn't give him a funeral and build a memorial to him. 'Ere Liez Yarrick. Da mightiest, fightiest, greatest 'umie to ever live, Gork and Mork's chosen 'umie, and orkier than most orks. Da galaxy is worse off wivvout 'im an' we won't see 'is like again. May 'e live forevva by Gork and Mork's side. Ahem. Sorry, teared up a bit there. Between his pursuit of a long-term goal at the expense of immediate gratification, belief in a higher purpose beyond personal gain, ability to recognize non-orks as genuinely worthy foes and more than just prey, ability to care about others beyond mere selfishness (I always liked the idea that he genuinely likes Makari and that threatening him would be mor//e likely to get your body cavity inverted than threatening Ghaz himself), questioning ork ideals of a superior, selfish view on the world and worst of all counting to 5 and beyond, Ghazghkull could be viewed as an ork "heretic" which is ironic as he's the most religiously devout ork in existence. He is as successful as he is because he has the strength, smarts and conviction to stand by his chosen path and to see it done by any means necessary. Ironically, his unshakeable faith in his way being the right way simultaneously makes him the least orky and yet orkiest ork to ever live. So, Ghazghkull is a goddamn exemplar among his kind, a legitimately awesome character, and more than just a mad brute. So let's see his miniatures. The original 2nd edition model is of course, well, second edition, and a bit dated/goofy by today's standards. It's pretty much a fairly run-of-the-mill Warboss in a rather impressive coat and hat. Ironically I feel it actually captures his personality the best of the three- whilst this may be due to the strong Kev Adams(?) style of the model, his grin and general expression, combined with an outfit clearly intended for more than mere protection, suggests intelligence and motivation beyond just hitting the enemy. However, overall it is still quite goofy and silly, and definitely not entirely representative of his modern character. Makari however is amazing. Moving on to his 4th(?) edition model. This to be fair is a decent model, and as far as the three go the best IMO. However, it is a very good generic mega armoured warboss. As Ghazghkull, I feel it comes a bit short. It's quite functional/bland, which doesn't really fit Ghaz at all. To an outsider, it's not obvious that he's the biggest baddest ork alive, and it certainly doesn't sell his more intelligent side. He's big and brutish and shouty, but that's about it. The face could be swapped with really any other ork head and you'd not know the difference. It kinda makes sense that most people that bought him, I recall, did so to convert into their own boss. And finally, his current plastic model. I'll be real. I don't like this at all. It's essentially the above model but given the "GW centrepiece model" treatment, with a weirdly Warcraft-y look and an overly dynamic pose. There's good parts to it; the quad-shoota is nice, the claw is cool even if I wish it weren't so fething big, and it does come with Makari (albeit his banner is kind of wimpy and not the mighty flag he deserves). However, on the whole I feel it seems a bit weak as a representation of Ghazghkull himself. There's no sign of the cunning or intelligence or conviction or anything else that marks out Ghazghkull as the magnificent warlord he is. Again- his face could be swapped with any other ork and nobody would be any the wiser. By contrast, his closest WHFB counterpart, Azhag the Slaughterer (fellow surprisingly clever and unconventional greenskin warboss). This is a face with character. It's a face of intelligence, purpose and focus. You can see he's thinking about his next move, how best to bring ruin to his enemies. It captures an orc not being merely driven by mad battle-lust or blind rage, and thus is a uniquely terrifying face for an orc. Ghazghkull, in my opinion, needs a face at least as well-rendered as this. Anything less is selling him short. Honestly, as much as I dislike the model overall, just giving him a better head would do wonders. Anyway, this is my spicy take. Now let's hear yours! tinpact, Warhead01, Brother Dallo and 5 others 8 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Not sure what your controversial take is besides bad taste in models. People love Ghaz and don't think little of him, he is the silent king / abaddon / guilliman of his faction. Never heard people say anything insulting about his character or his stories personally. But you did say you didn't like his newest model at all, when it's one of the best models GW has ever made and handily won model of the year when it came out. Not every model can match everyone's head cannon version of them. His model is great and reflects how badass he is. The head you posted does not show intelligence, purpose or focus at all, it's very derpy with unleveled and miss matched eyes, mangled teeth and a terribly proportioned mouth. Brother_Angelus, Tyriks, Arbedark and 2 others 5 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 you are right gaz does need a sillier hat. Magos Valkamar, Evil Eye, Khornestar and 1 other 1 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 While I am utterly persuaded by Evil Eye's take on Ghazghkull's character, I must agree with Special Officer Doofy that Azhag the Slaughterer's expression reads as dazed and confused to me, or that he's listening he what his fancy hat is telling him rather than hatching a devious strategy. Magos Valkamar, BLACK BLΠFLY and Special Officer Doofy 1 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said: People love Ghaz and don't think little of him Would that not mean that Evil Eye's take is .... contoversial? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Grotsmasha said: Would that not mean that Evil Eye's take is .... contoversial? Well their post reads (to me) that they are talking up how cool, important and different Ghaz is, and that is not controversial, because most people love him and think the same. Evil eye never provided evidence that people think otherwise. The only thing controversial is them not liking the newer model, which is controversial because most people love it and it won model of the year... BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865817 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said: Well their post reads (to me) that they are talking up how cool, important and different Ghaz is, and that is not controversial, because most people love him and think the same. Evil eye never provided evidence that people think otherwise. The only thing controversial is them not liking the newer model, which is controversial because most people love it and it won model of the year... Except that Evil Eye specifically said their controversial take was specifically about the model/s..... 2 hours ago, Evil Eye said: I have one that concerns the orks. Specifically, the ork to end all orks, the undisputed mightiest living greenskin, Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka. and that opinion is as such: Ghazghkull Thraka has never had a model that does him justice. Edited September 12, 2022 by Grotsmasha Skywrath, Evil Eye and Xenith 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) My hot 40k opinion is.... Secondary objectives are an acceptable and welcome way to balance competitive viability of whole factions when points changes aren't enough to do so on their own. Edited September 12, 2022 by Lemondish Lazarine and Lord_Ikka 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Grotsmasha said: Except that Evil Eye specifically said their controversial take was specifically about the model/s..... Which is why my first sentence of my first post is: 1 hour ago, Special Officer Doofy said: Not sure what your controversial take is besides bad taste in models. The love letter to ghaz / description of his character seems out of place in the post, physical characteristics and mental/social/emotional characteristics don't exactly relate. I mean I get not liking a model a majority of people enjoy or liking one that people don't, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 @Special Officer Doofy I think maybe you have misinterpreted the intent of the thread, it IS NOT about arguing and convincing people that their spicy / controversial take is wrong / unpopular, the very nature of the thread already dictates that.... apologist 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865822 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ikka Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 24 minutes ago, Lemondish said: My hot 40k opinion is.... Secondary missions are an acceptable and welcome way to balance competitive viability of whole factions when points changes aren't enough to do so on their own. Frankly, I agree with this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Grotsmasha said: @Special Officer Doofy I think maybe you have misinterpreted the intent of the thread, it IS NOT about arguing and convincing people that their spicy / controversial take is wrong / unpopular, the very nature of the thread already dictates that.... Never said it was, but what's the point of posting anything if not to talk about it? I posted for clarity on their post, because the 2/3 part of the post that was a wall of text about him in the setting has nothing to do with the model. I didn't know if they also thought that part was controversial, not just the model. How does one put into a model that they appreciate an opponent like yarrick? How do you put "smarts and conviction" on a model, specifically the head? So the whole point of this thread is to not respond to each other and just dump your own post and leave? No agreeing or disagreeing? That's kind of cringey... Edited September 12, 2022 by Special Officer Doofy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said: So the whole point of this thread is to not respond to each other and just dump your own post and leave? No agreeing or disagreeing? That's kind of cringey... No, your opening point is that Evil Eye has bad taste in models, and that their opinion is "wrong". You get to say why you disagree, you don't get to assert your opinion as fact. I actually disagree with Evil Eye on that point, I really like the current Ghaz model apologist and Evil Eye 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865829 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Grotsmasha said: No, your opening point is that Evil Eye has bad taste in models, and that their opinion is "wrong". You get to say why you disagree, you don't get to assert your opinion as fact. I actually disagree with Evil Eye on that point, I really like the current Ghaz model Well I also mentioned the part where it won model of the year, you know that thing where tens of thousands + people vote on it through GW official channels and is not my opinion. That takes my opinion out of the equation and adds some (the only?) objectivity to a subjective matter. Never asserted my opinion as fact, just cited the majority of the hobbiest that took the poll, which is a fact. Also in a later post I did say you're allowed to not like something everyone else does and allowed to like stuff a majority dislike, I get it. I thought the Primaris atv was adorable but there was alot of hate on here for it. How do you disagree with someone and not think they are wrong? That's a very hard if not impossible thing to do. The bad taste comment wasn't just about not liking a model of the year, it was more about how a certain face displayed "intelligence, purpose and focus", which I and another frater just after didn't think so. But I do agree with you on one thing, the current Ghaz model is awesome. The fact that it has two poses on a named character with a set loadout is sweet and something more characters should have moving forward! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 My hot take... 10th edition should include at the release: Calgar will wake up, hear someone in the shower, go investigate and ultimately find he dreamt up the events of Guilliman's reawakening, the Tau existing and Cadia falling only to be replaced with Vigilus. Special Officer Doofy, Lazarine, Magos Valkamar and 2 others 1 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarabando Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 my spiciest take is Gatekeeping is good for the health of the hobby. IF you change what was fundamentally unique about the hobby to chase a new demographic of customers you will loose out imo. a slapped on paintjob with wonky eyes didnt spark the imaginations of kids in the 90s mike mcvey's stunning dioramas did. MegaVolt87, Special Officer Doofy and Iron Father Ferrum 2 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Spicy takes? The 40k Firstborn should be moved to Legends in their entirety. The new Horus Heresy range, with the plastic Sicaran, Leviathan, Spartan, Primarchs, etc is a far superior range of models to the old squat Marines. I even prefer the Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminators to the old Imdomnitus kits (The Imdomnitus can still be used in 30k too). The Primaris should receive a large wave of releases in order to plug the missing links in their range. This should include: Jump pack infantry, Long Range fire support infantry, new Dread, Flyer and HQ variations. Also, Chapter Specific units: Primaris Sanguinary Guard, Primaris Deathwing Veterans, etc etc, as well as numerous upgrade sprues for each chapter so that additional units and chapter unique weapons are made available. The HH range has shown how many units can be made when you simply create an upgrade sprue that unlocks new wargear options. 40k belongs to Primaris. A far superior range of models that scale better with other armies on the tabletop and are more distinct from other Imperium factions. The range is not yet complete, but a big wave of releases could get it there. These are the Astartes of the future. In 30k you'll find a vision of the classic Astartes that is better realised, with superior vehicles, infantry models and unit variety thanks to the FW options available to each Legion. Again, the range isn't quite complete but isn't far from being so in the case of Astartes. Aarik, Kythnos, Noserenda and 5 others 7 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Marshal Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) Most people would be a lot happier playing other, non-GW games but the size of 40k's player base is the only thing holding them to it. Edited September 12, 2022 by Lord Marshal Slave to Darkness, Pacific81, Iron Father Ferrum and 9 others 11 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 My spiciest take: people advocating classic marines should go to legends/are going to be ‘squatted’ should move on. It’s been over 5 years now guys, firstborn in 40k clearly aren’t going anywhere GW aren’t going to delete the likes of mk7 armour, Indomitus terminator armour, tactical squads, assault squads, devastator squads, marine rhino and land raiders etc from 40k. These are iconic, indelible parts of the setting. More than one type of marine can exist in 40k, open your minds derLumpi, Metzombie, Iron Father Ferrum and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Ikka Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 Mine- T'au don't deserve to be the whipping boys anymore. Its been six editions and twenty years, they're an established faction with decent backstory that is only getting better with stuff like the Fourth Sphere Expansion xenos merc issues/massacres. Cyrox, Doctor Perils, Urauloth and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 I guess my take on the Primaris/First born is that GW should have been honest and just released a new range 'these are the new scale for marines', bringing them up to modern standards and addressing the scaling issues/proportions that everyone had been remarking about for many years. But then some bright spark said "but we can keep the existing minis/box sets on sale if we do this.." and then brought about the biggest revolution in the lore and setting since the tail end of Rogue Trader.. Chaos-resistant marines indeed! Cactus, Urauloth, Iron Father Ferrum and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrox Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 My spiciest take: Vlka Fenryka and the Rout are two stupid names, and they and their leather masks can do one! Rik Lightstar, Slave to Darkness, sitnam and 4 others 5 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Takatus Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Lord_Ikka said: Mine- T'au don't deserve to be the whipping boys anymore. Its been six editions and twenty years, they're an established faction with decent backstory that is only getting better with stuff like the Fourth Sphere Expansion xenos merc issues/massacres. I think they have been a part of 40k for longer than 40k has existed without them but if you want whipping boys you should speak to the Eldar Avatar... Until recently my hot take would have been that Chaos Daemons didn't need to be their own army since they had so few units and were basically a Warhammer Fantasy army transplanted into 40k but my stance has softened in that regard. The way they ally into other Chaos forces works a lot better than them being adding into the back of every other Chaos faction. I can't really think of a proper hot take now. Will be back later if I think of a good one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865870 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Knight Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 When I look at the 40k Firstborn and compare them to Primaris, Sororitas, Custodes, Votann, Necrons, the new Eldar sculpts etc etc, they just look really bad. They really do look like Squat Marines, but unintentionally so. Ironically I've probably bought more "classic" Marines this year than most people, but I still hold to my opinion that it's time to move on from the old 40k range. Pacific81 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 12, 2022 Share Posted September 12, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, Lemondish said: Secondary missions are an acceptable and welcome way to balance competitive viability of whole factions when points changes aren't enough to do so on their own. The problem is that immediately invalidates other modes of play, even Tempest of War. My spiciest opinion... The Star Child fluff is still valid and the 3rd edition "retcon" was actually a Tzeentchian plot to try and discredit its followers. Edited September 12, 2022 by Karhedron Lazarine, Cactus, Pacific81 and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375854-your-spiciest-40k-opinion/#findComment-5865889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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