Your Spiciest 40K Opinion

[WARMASTER_]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

When I look at the 40k Firstborn and compare them to Primaris, Sororitas, Custodes, Votann, Necrons, the new Eldar sculpts etc etc, they just look really bad.

They really do look like Squat Marines, but unintentionally so. 

Ironically I've probably bought more "classic" Marines this year than most people, but I still hold to my opinion that it's time to move on from the old 40k range. 

I agree completely the proportions are wonky as hell now but for me the MKVII is too iconic to have it just be a collectors piece for us that have played long enough to still love it 

I also believe with the way in which GW updated the lore that there’s still obviously loads of first born around they’re a prime candidate for a re sculpt 

the proportions of the SM Heroes squad was brilliant and I’m sure all us veteran players would buy as many as we could get our hands on 

[WARMASTER_]

My Spicy hot take 

 

Orcs don’t belong in 40K… at least the Orcs we currently have 

For me at least they just don’t fit into 40k’s aesthetic they’re portrayed as this massive terrifying threat but I can’t take them seriously because of the “Comedy” elements 

ADB’s orcs from Helsreach were a great step forward for me, Feral, Terrifying Beasts than want naught but slaughter, rather than the pigeon English speaking “red ones go faster” comedy support we have now 

[WrathOfTheLion]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

When I look at the 40k Firstborn and compare them to Primaris, Sororitas, Custodes, Votann, Necrons, the new Eldar sculpts etc etc, they just look really bad.

They really do look like Squat Marines, but unintentionally so. 

Ironically I've probably bought more "classic" Marines this year than most people, but I still hold to my opinion that it's time to move on from the old 40k range. 

I'm of the opinion that means the models are the issue, so thus I think they should redo the design of MK VII armor like they did with MK VI.

Edited September 12, 2022 by WrathOfTheLion

[Scribe]

31 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

My spiciest opinion...

The Star Child fluff is still valid and the 3rd edition "retcon" was actually a Tzeentchian plot to try and discredit its followers.

That cant be spicy, its too true! ;)

[Lemondish]

20 hours ago, Karhedron said:

The problem is that immediately invalidates other modes of play, even Tempest of War.

Another spicy opinion: those game modes shouldn't matter to balance and the players involved should take more of a role in insuring a good game.

 

20 hours ago, BladeOfVengeance said:

Orcs don’t belong in 40K… at least the Orcs we currently have 

I both agree with you but would hate to lose them, even though it feels right.

[RWJP]

5 hours ago, Robbienw said:

My spiciest take: people advocating classic marines should go to legends/are going to be ‘squatted’ should move on.  It’s been over 5 years now guys, firstborn in 40k clearly aren’t going anywhere 

GW aren’t going to delete the likes of mk7 armour, Indomitus terminator armour, tactical squads, assault squads, devastator squads, marine rhino and land raiders etc from 40k.  These are iconic, indelible parts of the setting.  
 

More than one type of marine can exist in 40k, open your minds 

 

 

On a similar note (and not necessarily directed specifically at you @Robbienw)

My spicy take is that people advocating for the removal of Primaris/retconning of the lore since 8th Edition should move on! It's been 5 years now guys, Primaris and the new lore are clearly here to stay.

@Robbienw is correct, more than one type of Marine can exist in 40k, open your minds.

[Evil Eye]

I felt the retcon kinda worked because, being 3rd edition, it was when GW were really leaning hard into the " most Imperial history is shrouded in myth, legend, dogma and bias" so even at the time it could be interpreted either way- a subversive Chaos cult attempting to undermine the Imperium, or genuine truth sabotaged by Tzeentch because a fully ascended Emperor would be terrifying to all four powers.

Speaking of Imperial faith, I have another spicy take.

It would be infinitely preferable if GW developed the Sisters further than if they introduced female Astartes

Female Space Marines are always a hot button issue. There's various debates for and against them. Personally I'd rather they didn't become a "normal" thing, even if I do think the occasional "one-off" Female Marine is acceptable if A: written well and B: clearly the exception and not the rule.

Most arguments for Female Marines boil down to "Well it's not fair that the supersoldiers are all male" or "We need more female representation" ignoring the fact that the 41st Millennium is even less fair than life already is and that's the point because it's a cosmic grand tragedy and also that no sane individual would want to be a Space Marine; hence why recruits are either from underdeveloped worlds where they have no concept of what awaits them or are outright abducted/requisitioned. You do not want to be "represented" in 40K but ESPECIALLY not as a Space Marine, because being a Space Marine is being consigned to vivisection, brainwashing and a lifetime of horror and war. However there is one argument I have heard I sort of agree with.

The argument is that in terms of "power armoured elite troops" the female equivalent (Sororitas) are much less diverse in appearance, culture and fluff than the Space Marines. They usually follow the same basic doctrines and have very little variety in wargear beyond colours (not helped by being metal most of their existence), and furthermore are fairly homogeneous in culture largely due to all their recruits coming from a very narrow pool. And whilst I agree that this does suck, I think the solution isn't female Marines. It's to allow for Sisters to have more variety.

This wouldn't necessitate massive retcons or even drastic developments. In fact, there's a very simple way you could explain it as a recent-ish development that doesn't break any lore or invalidate old fluff.

"Following the birth of the Cicatrix Maledictum and the Imperium Nihilus, the Ecclesiarchy came to a radical conclusion- to keep the light of the Emperor shining across the galaxy, they would need to evolve the Adepta Sororitas. Far more Sisters were required than were currently available, to the point that the entire Terran Schola Progenium would not be able to provide even half the needed numbers. Furthermore, it was realized that the Imperial Creed could be delivered far more effectively if individual Orders were permitted to within reason adapt it to fit local culture; window dressing and finer details being far less important than core Imperial beliefs and values and warning against actual heresy, which often took far less radical guises than even the most divergent Imperial subculture.

Thus, it was decided that new recruiting systems would be instated to provide the necessary young women. These would be managed by the heads of the new Orders, selected from within the ranks of existing Orders to bring truth and light to even the darkest corners of the galaxy. Each new Order would keep the fundamental Imperial Truth as their unshakable roots, but would be permitted to form their own doctrine, subcultures and even adopt local customs where acceptable in order to better bring His teachings to people who otherwise would not understand.

This was not unopposed. Some amongst the Ecclesiarchy viewed dilution of the Sisterhood's traditions to be heresy, and to undermine the purpose of the Sororitas as bearers of His truth. And some outsiders, notably Guilliman himself, believed that Ecclesiarchal overreach was dangerous and that the Imperium would be better protected by Astartes and the Imperial Guard, seeking a more secular Imperium.

However, the debate was won by the reformists when none other than Canoness-Errant Setheno took their side, stating that not only would the Imperium be better off with more loyal subjects who followed different paths to His side than a few extremely dogmatic individuals sitting in a mass grave of those who had once been their kin for the "crime" of worshipping the Emperor "wrong", but that clinging to immutable dogma to the detriment of their holy mission was beyond counterproductive- it opposed the Sororitas' origins of having emerged from Sebastian Thor's campaign of reform and restoration, and that to do so was akin to spitting in the face of the founding Saints themselves.

Thus, it was decided that the Edict of Setheno be passed, vastly increasing the numbers of Sororitas and also allowing them a much greater degree of autonomy. Whilst every new Order and recruitment world must be personally blessed by the Canoness-Errant herself, the result has been on the whole a success. The word of the Emperor has been brought to worlds long thought lost, and countless lives have been saved from the torch. In addition, the Sororitas- often somewhat unfairly thought of as an austere and oppressive institution- has become far better regarded by the average Imperial citizen, having gone from merciless enforcers of a single creed to beloved Samaritans, shepherding the masses to His grace."

This would basically mean not every single Sisters army would have to use the same designs and heraldry. Not every Order is just "Roman Catholics in SPACE", now there's other sects of Catholicism! More seriously you could potentially take inspiration from many IRL cultures. For instance, I always found the idea of a vaguely Southeast Asian inspired Order fascinating, reflecting how the Philippines has become one of the main strongholds of the Catholic faith in Asia, with their own unique culture that combines indigenous customs with Western influence to create something completely unique. Even on a purely aesthetic level this could make for some really nice armies- using the above examples, chainswords could be replaced with chain-goloks and robes given patterns lifted from Tagalog textile traditions, which would both look awesome and bring a smile to the face of any 40K playing Pinobros/Pinapals you might have.

[Pacific81]

1 hour ago, BladeOfVengeance said:

My Spicy hot take 

 

Orcs don’t belong in 40K… at least the Orcs we currently have 

For me at least they just don’t fit into 40k’s aesthetic they’re portrayed as this massive terrifying threat but I can’t take them seriously because of the “Comedy” elements 

ADB’s orcs from Helsreach were a great step forward for me, Feral, Terrifying Beasts than want naught but slaughter, rather than the pigeon English speaking “red ones go faster” comedy support we have now 

I think this is because of how the game setting has evolved over the years - it was a lot more tongue-in-cheek in the first couple of editions, where you basically have a faction based off of football hooligans (and why we all think Orks speak with a london accent lol). As more of the satire and joke elements have been removed from the game it has made it stand out more.

I still think there is a place for it - you need things like the Orks to stop the setting taking itself too seriously, and to remind you that it is still meant to be satirical. And if you removed the humour then you basically just have green Tyranids..

[WARMASTER_]

 

14 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Female Space Marines are always a hot button issue. There's various debates for and against them. Personally I'd rather they didn't become a "normal" thing, even if I do think the occasional "one-off" Female Marine is acceptable if A: written well and B: clearly the exception and not the rule.

Most arguments for Female Marines boil down to "Well it's not fair that the supersoldiers are all male" or "We need more female representation" ignoring the fact that the 41st Millennium is even less fair than life already is and that's the point because it's a cosmic grand tragedy and also that no sane individual would want to be a Space Marine; hence why recruits are either from underdeveloped worlds where they have no concept of what awaits them or are outright abducted/requisitioned. You do not want to be "represented" in 40K but ESPECIALLY not as a Space Marine, because being a Space Marine is being consigned to vivisection, brainwashing and a lifetime of horror and war. However there is one argument I have heard I sort of agree with.

The argument is that in terms of "power armoured elite troops" the female equivalent (Sororitas) are much less diverse in appearance, culture and fluff than the Space Marines. They usually follow the same basic doctrines and have very little variety in wargear beyond colours (not helped by being metal most of their existence), and furthermore are fairly homogeneous in culture largely due to all their recruits coming from a very narrow pool. And whilst I agree that this does suck, I think the solution isn't female Marines. It's to allow for Sisters to have more variety.

I’ve been saying something very similar to this for a long time… We’ll put 

[WARMASTER_]

14 minutes ago, Pacific81 said:

I think this is because of how the game setting has evolved over the years - it was a lot more tongue-in-cheek in the first couple of editions, where you basically have a faction based off of football hooligans (and why we all think Orks speak with a london accent lol). As more of the satire and joke elements have been removed from the game it has made it stand out more.

I still think there is a place for it - you need things like the Orks to stop the setting taking itself too seriously, and to remind you that it is still meant to be satirical. And if you removed the humour then you basically just have green Tyranids..

Oh no doubt! Although I still think 40K has the same Satire it’s always had, in the bleak 80s “dry as bones” British humour kind of way, it’s definitely lost a lot of the more overt light hearted comedy aspects so while i agree they’ve got a place I wish they had evolved with the setting 

[ThePenitentOne]

My hot take is that this game needs a persistent edition.

Frequent edition change is worse for the maintenance of a player base than the shortcomings of any given edition.

Ninth is my favourite edition, but honestly, if we were all still playing a living edition of Rogue Trader you can bet that we would have seen far more development of other factions... If they weren't remarketing and reselling the same 120 marine models and the same 40 models for every other faction, they would have to create new stuff. Heck, if they hadn't bothered with 9 reprints of the same stuff, we could have had LOV, GSC, Custodes, Deathwatch, WE and Emperor's Children 15 years ago...

And despite the fact that I like 9th's rules better than RT's rules, I'd have been fine with any previous rule set if it meant that GW was going to focus on development and growing other ranges rather than fall back on edition churn.

[Lord Marshal]

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

When I look at the 40k Firstborn and compare them to Primaris, Sororitas, Custodes, Votann, Necrons, the new Eldar sculpts etc etc, they just look really bad.

They really do look like Squat Marines, but unintentionally so. 

Ironically I've probably bought more "classic" Marines this year than most people, but I still hold to my opinion that it's time to move on from the old 40k range. 

That's because the models are old.

The new 30k plastics looks great. 

[Scribe]

As for my spicy opinion.

Haley will be the vehicle through which the Emperor is returned to the setting in an active undeniable role, and it will be the turning point which we look back on as the downfall of the setting. 

[Robbienw]

55 minutes ago, RWJP said:

On a similar note (and not necessarily directed specifically at you @Robbienw)

My spicy take is that people advocating for the removal of Primaris/retconning of the lore since 8th Edition should move on! It's been 5 years now guys, Primaris and the new lore are clearly here to stay.

@Robbienw is correct, more than one type of Marine can exist in 40k, open your minds.

I agree.  I don’t object to Primaris as I used to, they have a genuine fanbase and the lore is improved so I would not advocate for their removal.

 

[Captain Idaho]

Hey for every spicy hottake that says Primaris should go there's one saying Firstborn should go. I wouldn't pay other people's opinion on it any heed. 

When it comes to another spicy hottake... GW needs to release Epic.

Funny extra, when I type "hottake", my phone keeps trying to change it to hotcakes. Even this forum is trying to ruin my diet.

[Evil Eye]

28 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Hey for every spicy hottake that says Primaris should go there's one saying Firstborn should go. I wouldn't pay other people's opinion on it any heed. 

When it comes to another spicy hottake... GW needs to release Epic.

Funny extra, when I type "hottake", my phone keeps trying to change it to hotcakes. Even this forum is trying to ruin my diet.

Honestly if GW evolved Titanicus into a full on Epic refresh, with Aeronautica Imperialis being a compatible "plug in" game (so you can have air support in Epic, which is arguably the only place high-speed aircraft belong in 40K games but anyway) I would absolutely go all in on that. I've long contemplated making Bio-Titans in AT/Epic scale for my Tyranids, so having actual official support for post-Heresy races would be amazing.

[Brother Casman]

My spiciest take for 40k - remove all of the named characters from all the Codexes. The models can stay, for example Calgar's model could be an "Ultramarines Chapter Master", but that's it.  

[Lemondish]

3 hours ago, RWJP said:

My spicy take is that people advocating for the removal of Primaris/retconning of the lore since 8th Edition should move on! It's been 5 years now guys, Primaris and the new lore are clearly here to stay.

My favourite piece of Primaris lore is...

Spoiler

Amadeus Kaias Incarius is saved by crossing the Rubicon Primaris following extensive torture from the Pure designed to rob him of the utility and capacity to fight. He undergoes THE CALGARIAN RITES that saves him.

I would hate to lose it. The presence of a new way to enhance, restore, and even rescue Astartes from a dire fate is fantastic.

3 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

It would be infinitely preferable if GW developed the Sisters further than if they introduced female Astartes

The potential vectors of conflict they could mine, satirically and otherwise, makes this a fething gold mine for both tongue-in-cheek and horrifyingly compelling narrative. 

3 hours ago, Pacific81 said:

(and why we all think Orks speak with a london accent lol)

A certain part of London, at least - but the key piece is that every item of extended media we've seen supports this. I mean, there's a reason it's called a WAAAAGH and it ain't all that creative. 

3 hours ago, BladeOfVengeance said:

Although I still think 40K has the same Satire it’s always had, in the bleak 80s “dry as bones” British humour kind of way, it’s definitely lost a lot of the more overt light hearted comedy aspects

I think that might be because some of the gak it was satirizing started to actually become popular, so taking a more serious and grim look might have helped succeed at more powerful satire and ridicule where the light hearted always failed. 

3 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

My hot take is that this game needs a persistent edition.

As an investor, I say no. Because it's in my best financial interest to encourage the behaviour the results in a massive bump in sales, thus financial success for the company.

But as someone who loves the universes they've created, I will supercede that feeling and vehemently agree.

51 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

GW needs to release Epic.

I'd prefer Battlefleet Gothic so I can add yet another layer to my narrative campaigns. 

20 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Honestly if GW evolved Titanicus into a full on Epic refresh, with Aeronautica Imperialis being a compatible "plug in" game (so you can have air support in Epic, which is arguably the only place high-speed aircraft belong in 40K games but anyway) I would absolutely go all in on that. I've long contemplated making Bio-Titans in AT/Epic scale for my Tyranids, so having actual official support for post-Heresy races would be amazing.

 

My hot take is that they should have made AI with the current flyer models lol

 

52 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Funny extra, when I type "hottake", my phone keeps trying to change it to hotcakes.

HOTCAKES FOR EVERYONE

[alfred_the_great]

That the internet has been the worst thing that could have possibly happened to 40k.

[WARMASTER_]

2 minutes ago, alfred_the_great said:

That the internet has been the worst thing that could have possibly happened to 40k.

This is not a hot take it’s a fact 

[Lemondish]

10 hours ago, BladeOfVengeance said:

This is not a hot take it’s a fact 

I am angry at this because I cannot refute it enough.

I mean, I credit the Internet as a driving force for exploding the popularity of the game AND HOBBY with the deluge of content, video and otherwise, that has absolutely EXPLODED. The popularity of the game and hobby has never been higher and it has enhanced and improved every facet I interact with, from list and tactica discussion, to painting and modeling tutorials. 

This is one of the few hot takes I would 107% fight anyone over. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Lemondish

[The Yncarne]

Maybe this is a hit take, but I think the game would be better if each faction had a limit of 6-8 (maybe 10-12 for 'established' factions) multi-purpose kits. I think smaller, more focused armies are easier to support in terms of rules, encourages better long-term purchase habits. 

OTOH, I am thinking that I am finally 'aging out' after playing since 1989 and this is just a phase.

[Dudley Nightshade]

My spicy take? I think the thing that is worst for the game might actually be best for the hobby as a whole. The way GW uses rules releases (edition churn and slow codex release schedule) to drive sales allows it to be a strong company that not only stays in business in a tough niche, but even takes an occasional risk with models and factions. It's exploitive of the fanbase, but perhaps good for the health of the hobby. I hate it, and I'm personally off the hamster wheel of buying GW rulebooks, but I think I am starting to understand it. I am conflicted.

[Evil Eye]

See I'd argue the explosion in popularity, mainstreaming of a niche hobby and the accompanying need to appease shareholders drawn by GW's rising star are actually major points in favour of his argument. Attempts to appeal to the masses have diluted the core essence of the hobby, and I'd argue the relentless unopposed expansionism of GW is what caused stuff like the merciless price-hiking and constant paywalling. It's also meant that any wargame other than GW ones are basically faced with a massive uphill struggle to even sustain itself at all, which has both been harmful for competition and for Warhammer itself- when it's "the only game in town" it's that much more vulnerable to accusations it needs to change due to the lack of viable "Have you considered playing this instead?" options.

Could be worse though. Could be WOTC with D&D.

[WARMASTER_]

1 hour ago, Lemondish said:

I am angry at this because I cannot refute it enough.

I mean, I credit the Internet as a driving force for exploding the popularity of the game AND HOBBY with the deluge of content, video and otherwise, that has absolutely EXPLODED. The popularity of the game and hobby has never been higher and it had enhanced and improved every facet I interact with, from list and tactica discussion, to painting a modeling tutorials. 

This is one of the few hot takes I would 107% fight anyone over. 

I won’t argue with you on this if it’s been a positive driving force for you then I’m happy for you, honestly 

But I’ll give my thoughts - they aren’t meant to sway you either 

Maybe it’s my age? I’m 31 and have been playing for 21ish years and my take on the matter [Maybe it’s nostalgia for a simpler time or maybe it’s the fact I think it many ways the internet it’s destroying society and peoples brains] is the hobby was infinitely better without the overwhelming internet presence it has now

when I was younger all me and my friends did was actually “Hobby” we painted, figured rules out together [more commonly played however we wanted] read the books and campaigns,  we discussed lore, wrote lists we thought were cool and just generally enjoyed ourselves within our group, 

unfortunately I think the internet has warped the hobby into being something that most hobbyists feel the need to be good at rather than just have fun now

An Example

With a good majority of the internet tutorials focused on “Get Good at the game noob” or “Be better at X … or Y” “Mathhammer” or my favourite in a separate but equally as bleak “The hobby is dead” “GW HAS RUINED X AND DEFINITELY Y” has lead to a community generally fixated on competitive play [In a roleplaying game… With future fantasy space knights… ] that’s mostly chance and where the rules change every couple of months! rather than just a casual game to enjoy among friends 

 

Another example 

4Chan and the like… I can’t think of any where that undermines the hobby worse than these ad nauseam meme fuelled [utterly misunderstanding the point] toxic Cesspools   

I could go on… and yes while I agree the internet has some amazing benefits [I honestly believe it does] and yes like most people I’m very aware I’m probably addicted to It on a level I’m definitely not comfortable with - Lots of peoples hobby’s have now become this - The Internet of 40K - rather than actually hobbying 

It’s something that isn't ever going to change if anything the internet will become more intertwined over time 

 

mostly incoherent rant over 

Edited September 12, 2022 by BladeOfVengeance