Valkyrion Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 (edited) Rending: '....the controlling player MAY choose to resolves these wounds at AP2' Breaching: '...the controlling play MUST resolves these wounds at AP2' Why the difference? Is there ever a situation where you would choose not to rend at AP2, or is it just inconsistent language? (I've posted this here rather than the rule forum because I understand the rules as presented, I'm more clarifying whether may/must is deliberate and if so, why) Edit - SORRY! I thought I was in the AoD section....please move this and call me a moron! Edited September 14, 2022 by Valkyrion Warhead01 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 I recall this question several years ago. If I recall the use of must and may are interchangeable as in no actually optional in both cases you "must". I don't know if this has changed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 Thread punted to the AoD Rules section as requested. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted September 14, 2022 Author Share Posted September 14, 2022 Is there any situation at all where it's more beneficial to not rend? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternus Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 I guess if you're close to wiping out a squad in combat, and don't wanna be left out in the open at the risk of a nasty melta volley or the like to the face, maybe? Warhead01 and Lord Krungharr 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brofist Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 If you scatter artillery on your own guys you can choose not to rend them! Lord Krungharr and Spagunk 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kraskor Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 5 hours ago, Warhead01 said: I recall this question several years ago. If I recall the use of must and may are interchangeable as in no actually optional in both cases you "must". I don't know if this has changed. That would seem a very torturous interpretation. They can't FAQ the English language! LameBeard and Warhead01 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted September 14, 2022 Share Posted September 14, 2022 18 minutes ago, Brother Kraskor said: That would seem a very torturous interpretation. They can't FAQ the English language! If I recall it had something to do with the permissive rule set. I don't know. I'm not even sure how to make since of that after so many years. I was just hoping this could lead to finding the right answer. GW's rules tend to be full of inconsistencies so I hope this is in an faq or addressed somewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 13 hours ago, Warhead01 said: the permissive rule set That just means the rules tell you what you can do, as opposed to what you can not. May resolve = optional; must resolve = non-optional. WrathOfTheLion and D3L 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch5000 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 14 hours ago, Warhead01 said: GW's rules tend to be full of inconsistencies so I hope this is in an faq or addressed somewhere. Is this really a "frequently" asked question, though? I don't really get what's up for grabs here... Rending MAY be at AP2, indictating a choice can be made, Breaching MUST be at AP2, indicating no choice can be made. They are, after all, different rules. mooftak, Xenith and WrathOfTheLion 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTheLion Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 Yeah, don't see the need for faq. As mentioned, may and must have clear definitions in the English tongue, with may implying a choice and must allowing no choice. They're pretty clear in that usage throughout the rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted September 15, 2022 Share Posted September 15, 2022 As long as it's answered and everyone's happy with that answer then that's good enough for me. My point in my reply, if it wasn't clear, was just that I recall this being asked back in like 7th and figured someone would remember what the answer was. I can't recall which forum it came up on , here or some where else or for all I know the BoLS comment section. it was several years ago. If it's sorted out now, good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 The second part of the Rending rule, pertaining to Shooting, omits the word may and simply states that it wounds automatically at AP2. This suggests to me that the wording is intentional (as we've concluded) but has some tactical implications for melee and not shooting, probably the not being stuck out in the open thing after killing a unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5866909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LameBeard Posted September 16, 2022 Share Posted September 16, 2022 (edited) I originally assumed using “may” was future-proofing against an AP1 Rending weapon. Doesn’t force the downgrade then. But that makes no sense given the vehicle differences and melee/shooting difference which is then contradicted in the final example. As with much GW wording, I assume it’s just been translated into German and then back again or some such fun. Because “may” could even be useful in the shooting phase, if you want to make sure someone is left to charge. Edited September 16, 2022 by LameBeard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5867039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted September 16, 2022 Author Share Posted September 16, 2022 I don't think 'may' applies in the shooting phase, given the wording. You're right that it could be useful, but I don't think it's there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5867110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LameBeard Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Exactly - no “may” in shooting, so still not real good answer as to why it would be “may” only in melee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5867242 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 I don't think the intent was to have optional rending in melee, but the rules definitely allow it lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5867269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Optional AP2 Rending would be useful in the very niche situation of using Mor Deythan Fatal Strike with meltaguns to get penetrating hits while out of melta range. That way you aren't forced to downgrade the AP of the melta shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/375885-rending-and-breaching-may-and-must/#findComment-5867902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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